Dissociative Drug | Dissociation Talk

MDs! RNs! Patients! KKKerry + Ambulance Chaser = High Premiums!

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MDs! RNs! Patients! KKKerry + Ambulance Chaser = High Premiums! Medical Doctors! Registered Nurses! Patients! KKKerry + Ambulance Chaser = High Insurance Premiums! Thanks to GREEDY AMBULANCE CHASER LAWYERS like John Edwards, HIGH MEDICAL MALPRACTICE INSURANCE PREMIUMS have forced the best and the brightest of my fellow medical doctors from providing affordable health care. Some of our medical doctors have even been forced to quit practicing high premium specialties such as ob-gyn. As a result, women and other patients suffer financially, physically, and mentally. Registered nurses also are overworked and underpaid, and are threatened with job loss thanks to frivolous lawsuits. In class action lawsuits, GREEDY AMBULANCE CHASER LAWYERS like John Edwards get billions of dollars. What do the class-action plaintiffs get? Coupons! Yes, coupons they can redeem for their next purchase. Thanks to the courage and leadership of President George W. Bush and the Party of Lincoln, for the first time in America’s history our beloved senior citizens now have an affordable, comprehensive prescription drug plan. But President George W. Bush needs your help. In only four [4] short years, President George W. Bush has accomplished more for the American People than the twenty [20] long years John "Flip Flopper" KKKerry has spent his wife’s money in the Senate. Yet, still more needs to be done. The Demon-KKK-Rats are SOFT on terrorists, rapists, murderers, drug dealers, and other criminals. John "Flip Flopper" KKKerry voted against funding our law enforcment, military and intelligence agencies, so that when the terrorists murder and maim our women, children and elderly, AMBULANCE CHASER LAWYERS like John Edwards reap the monetary benefits from frivolous lawsuits. DSM-IV: A Psychoanalysis of John "Flip Flopper" KKKerry’s Mental Disease + Defect Clearly, John "Flip Flopper" KKKerry has dissociative identity disorder (DID, formerly known as multiple personality disorder, MPD — thankfully renamed because KKKerry has absolutely no personality whatosoever). September 02, 2004 | Republican National Convention Governor George Pataki George W. Bush says what he means, he means what he says, you can trust him. Senator Kerry, on the other hand Well, what can we say of Senator Kerry? He was for the war and then he was against the war. Then he was for it but he wouldn’t fund it. Then he’d fund it but he wasn’t for it. He was for the Patriot Act until he was against it. Or was he against it until he was for it? I forget. He probably does too. This is a candidate who has to Google his own name to find out where he stands. You saw their convention a few weeks ago. They had a slogan: "Hope is on the way." But with all their flip-flopping and zig-zagging their real slogan should be, "Hype is on the way." You know, as Republicans we’re lucky. This fall we’re going to win one for the Gipper. But our opponents – they’re going lose one with the Flipper. …. On September 11th in New York we learned that in the hands of a monster, a box cutter is a weapon of mass destruction. And Saddam Hussein was a monster — a walking- talking weapon of mass destruction. John KKKerry: Just Vote NO to Body Armor for Our Troops September 02, 2004 | Republican National Convention President George W. Bush Again, my opponent and I have different approaches. I proposed, and the Congress overwhelmingly passed, 87 billion dollars in funding needed by our troops doing battle in Afghanistan and Iraq. My opponent and his running mate voted against this money for bullets, and fuel, and vehicles, and body armor. When asked to explain his vote, the Senator said, "I actually did vote for the 87 billion dollars before I voted against it." Then he said he was "proud" of that vote. Then, when pressed, he said it was a "complicated" matter. There is nothing complicated about supporting our troops in combat. Our allies also know the historic importance of our work. About 40 nations stand beside us in Afghanistan, and some 30 in Iraq. And I deeply appreciate the courage and wise counsel of leaders like Prime Minister Howard, and President Kwasniewski, and Prime Minister Berlusconi and, of course, Prime Minister Tony Blair. Again, my opponent takes a different approach. In the midst of war, he has called America’s allies, quote, a "coalition of the coerced and the bribed." That would be nations like Great Britain, Poland, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Denmark, El Salvador, Australia, and others; allies that deserve the respect of all Americans, not the scorn of a politician. I respect every soldier, from every country, who serves beside us in the hard work of history. America is grateful, and America will not forget. Dr. Cosby was RIGHT ARABS Murdering + Raping Blacks in Sudan (or How Al Qaeda Sharpton shows us his "White Pride") Al Qaeda Sharpton and other so-called "black leaders" support arab terrorists and always talk about their "European" allies. Last I looked, Sharpton isn’t (and other so-called "black leaders" aren’t) European; then again, maybe "White Pride" Sharpton is a "trick baby." Indeed, Dr. Bill Cosby was "keeping it real" when he noted that so-called "black leaders" only speak for the ignorant, low-class criminal thugs who terrorize their own community and who, thankfully, don’t vote. The PARTY OF LINCOLN has always supported Equal Rights + Low Taxes for ALL Americans Who Work Hard. Whereas Demon-KKK-Rats have always supported rights for arab Terrorists and other Criminals. Peace Out Racist Demon-KKK-Rats always talk about wimpy Old European French "Surrender" Frogs, whilst insulting our brave New European, Latino and Asian allies that have joined Iraqi Operation Freeedom. See: http://www.cjtf7.army.mil/the-coalition/coalition-forces.htm

Response:

Medical Doctors! Registered Nurses! Patients! KKKerry + Ambulance Chaser = High Insurance Premiums! Thanks to GREEDY AMBULANCE CHASER LAWYERS like John Edwards, HIGH MEDICAL MALPRACTICE INSURANCE PREMIUMS have forced the best and the brightest of my fellow medical doctors from providing affordable health care. Some of our medical doctors have even been forced to quit practicing high premium specialties such as ob-gyn. As a result, women and other patients suffer financially, physically, and mentally. Registered nurses also are overworked and underpaid, and are threatened with job loss thanks to frivolous lawsuits. In class action lawsuits, GREEDY AMBULANCE CHASER LAWYERS like John Edwards get billions of dollars. What do the class-action plaintiffs get? Coupons! Yes, coupons they can redeem for their next purchase. Thanks to the courage and leadership of President George W. Bush and the Party of Lincoln, for the first time in America’s history our beloved senior citizens now have an affordable, comprehensive prescription drug plan. But President George W. Bush needs your help. In only four [4] short years, President George W. Bush has accomplished more for the American People than the twenty [20] long years John "Flip Flopper" KKKerry has spent his wife’s money in the Senate. Yet, still more needs to be done. The Demon-KKK-Rats are SOFT on terrorists, rapists, murderers, drug dealers, and other criminals. John "Flip Flopper" KKKerry voted against funding our law enforcment, military and intelligence agencies, so that when the terrorists murder and maim our women, children and elderly, AMBULANCE CHASER LAWYERS like John Edwards reap the monetary benefits from frivolous lawsuits. DSM-IV: A Psychoanalysis of John "Flip Flopper" KKKerry’s Mental Disease + Defect Clearly, John "Flip Flopper" KKKerry has dissociative identity disorder (DID, formerly known as multiple personality disorder, MPD — thankfully renamed because KKKerry has absolutely no personality whatosoever). September 02, 2004 | Republican National Convention Governor George Pataki George W. Bush says what he means, he means what he says, you can trust him. Senator Kerry, on the other hand Well, what can we say of Senator Kerry? He was for the war and then he was against the war. Then he was for it but he wouldn’t fund it. Then he’d fund it but he wasn’t for it. He was for the Patriot Act until he was against it. Or was he against it until he was for it? I forget. He probably does too. This is a candidate who has to Google his own name to find out where he stands. You saw their convention a few weeks ago. They had a slogan: "Hope is on the way." But with all their flip-flopping and zig-zagging their real slogan should be, "Hype is on the way." You know, as Republicans we’re lucky. This fall we’re going to win one for the Gipper. But our opponents – they’re going lose one with the Flipper. …. On September 11th in New York we learned that in the hands of a monster, a box cutter is a weapon of mass destruction. And Saddam Hussein was a monster — a walking- talking weapon of mass destruction. John KKKerry: Just Vote NO to Body Armor for Our Troops September 02, 2004 | Republican National Convention President George W. Bush Again, my opponent and I have different approaches. I proposed, and the Congress overwhelmingly passed, 87 billion dollars in funding needed by our troops doing battle in Afghanistan and Iraq. My opponent and his running mate voted against this money for bullets, and fuel, and vehicles, and body armor. When asked to explain his vote, the Senator said, "I actually did vote for the 87 billion dollars before I voted against it." Then he said he was "proud" of that vote. Then, when pressed, he said it was a "complicated" matter. There is nothing complicated about supporting our troops in combat. Our allies also know the historic importance of our work. About 40 nations stand beside us in Afghanistan, and some 30 in Iraq. And I deeply appreciate the courage and wise counsel of leaders like Prime Minister Howard, and President Kwasniewski, and Prime Minister Berlusconi and, of course, Prime Minister Tony Blair. Again, my opponent takes a different approach. In the midst of war, he has called America’s allies, quote, a "coalition of the coerced and the bribed." That would be nations like Great Britain, Poland, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Denmark, El Salvador, Australia, and others; allies that deserve the respect of all Americans, not the scorn of a politician. I respect every soldier, from every country, who serves beside us in the hard work of history. America is grateful, and America will not forget. Dr. Cosby was RIGHT ARABS Murdering + Raping Blacks in Sudan (or How Al Qaeda Sharpton shows us his "White Pride") Al Qaeda Sharpton and other so-called "black leaders" support arab terrorists and always talk about their "European" allies. Last I looked, Sharpton isn’t (and other so-called "black leaders" aren’t) European; then again, maybe "White Pride" Sharpton is a "trick baby." Indeed, Dr. Bill Cosby was "keeping it real" when he noted that so-called "black leaders" only speak for the ignorant, low-class criminal thugs who terrorize their own community and who, thankfully, don’t vote. The PARTY OF LINCOLN has always supported Equal Rights + Low Taxes for ALL Americans Who Work Hard. Whereas Demon-KKK-Rats have always supported rights for arab Terrorists and other Criminals. Peace Out Racist Demon-KKK-Rats always talk about wimpy Old European French "Surrender" Frogs, whilst insulting our brave New European, Latino and Asian allies that have joined Iraqi Operation Freeedom. See: http://www.cjtf7.army.mil/the-coalition/coalition-forces.htm

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boring words on boring protection stuff

Dissociative Drug

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i’m grown up enough to know how to take care of us. i keep us safe and that’s good. i mean real safe too, we’re ok. it’s not that i don’t know what happened, it’s just that i need a break, i need to keep moving – not a quiet break but a doing something else but mourning break, but none of the stuff that guarantees that we’ll be safe keeps us moving. all of the books seem kinda lame, and with the tv, there are too many breaks and too easy to drift off anyway. i dunno. no new movies, though maybe those dvd’s she got of Buffy. i just don’t trust that, it’s too…. passive? yeah, that sounds right. i try to keep them away from windows and mirrors and that’s kind of hard because they get there if i take a break, but i mean, i get bored. i keep them existing so that they can keep existing (how dumb is that?), and i know that can be tough, but right now it isn’t so. it’s more boring and hard. i mean, if i wasn’t here, that would be harder for them, but i am. it’s just hard to stay locked in place, but not because it’s actually hard (i can handle a fight) just because it’s so easy. i come back to this and i think what i mean is that they’re defeated and broken inside. so they’re too tired to fight me for control, but if they have it it’s a *bad thing*. so i gotta be on guard, but there’s so little action to keep us alert. i hope that doesn’t sound mean to them, i know they’re hurting, but… it’s so hard because it’s not like i don’t hurt, or at least, i can feel the pain throughout me, so i’m not unsympathetic, i just… i don’t think thi s is the kind of hard that i’m good at. i just don’t see anyone else in here jumpin up for the job, you know? i know i shouldn’t be writing this, but i’m bored. there’s restless all in me. but i know that the stuff i wanna do i could mess things up with, just like i know that the stuff they wanna do is gonna be a problem. they can’t have a drink cuz it has calories and they will freak on how fat they are (duh) and it only makes ppl more depressed in the end. i mean, what a dumb drug. and if we take the other meds, we’ll just get so sleepy that there will be all sad and then there might be more danger (not that if i think there’s going to be actual danger coming i won’t give them their meds, cuz that would just be stupid, just the danger of being too sad and maybe me getting too mellow). i know i can’t go for a bike ride, but i wanna, and i know they can’t go for a car ride, but they wanna. and i know they can’t go on a trip, but we all kinda wanna, except that we don’t because then we wouldn’t be here for everyone when they need us, but they don’t now. i mean, they really don’t. posting here can be dangerous, but… it can be helpful too, and we need to do something. but now that we look at our conscience atm, this is probably where we should head out again. it’s getting a bit too real. we wrote the stuff at the end earlier, so we’ll sign off now. the rest is real post, it’s just dissociative posting style. peace, of embies ugh, and that was the mthr on the phone, and she wants us over for supper, but how are we going to explain this? showers aren’t allowed just right now (we took one yesterday though!), and i don’t feel like bein the one to chit-chat with them. not that they’d notice, it’s been years, my whole life and stuff. and i know they just want to be nice, but i’m kinda sick of ppl lookin at us feelin sorry for us. i dunno if i can take it from them. but at least the dog will be happy. the mags who i still have. the lucky who lives with them, he will not be so happy to have my mags over. she is very boisterous, which may confuse those of you who’ve met her. ok, i know this makes no sense, but please just bear with us on this. we can’t get to where we want to be in the healing process right now, and we think that’s ok and it makes sense and all, but it is like we are keeping yous and us out in the dark on some things. some things just take time, though. and this is one of those things that takes time, and we need to talk around it. and i hope you don’t later judge me or us and think we’re callus, because if you knew our heart you would know it’s not true. we’re just trying to get by is all. and Jill, if you’re reading this, we think that some posts are as hard to write as ten posts, and we think extra credit should be given for them. this didn’t start out as one of em, but it is now, so we hope to see at least three on our score. thank you, of embies Be bold in what you stand for and careful of what you fall for. ~ Ruth Boorstin — For more information about this posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

Dear embies – We think you are one of the many peoples here who are doing very, very, very hard work right now – work that you wouldn’t have chosen, that’s for sure, but you are really truly doing it, and doing it well. No, I think so. Maybe you don’t, and I am not in a place to argue. But it seems so from here. And seeing what we’ve seen here recently, with all of the hard work and the stuff shifting that peoples have to say about their hard work, no one is ever going to judge or think you are being callous or anything – we don’t think that’s what’s happening here right now. You take care of you – I think I’ve heard you say that to some of us a time or so – You have our numbers. Beautys. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’m grown up enough to know how to take care of us. i keep us safe and that’s good. i mean real safe too, we’re ok. it’s not that i don’t know what happened, it’s just that i need a break, i need to keep moving – not a quiet break but a doing something else but mourning break, but none of the stuff that guarantees that we’ll be safe keeps us moving. all of the books seem kinda lame, and with the tv, there are too many breaks and too easy to drift off anyway. i dunno. no new movies, though maybe those dvd’s she got of Buffy. i just don’t trust that, it’s too…. passive? yeah, that sounds right. i try to keep them away from windows and mirrors and that’s kind of hard because they get there if i take a break, but i mean, i get bored. i keep them existing so that they can keep existing (how dumb is that?), and i know that can be tough, but right now it isn’t so. it’s more boring and hard. i mean, if i wasn’t here, that would be harder for them, but i am. it’s just hard to stay locked in place, but not because it’s actually hard (i can handle a fight) just because it’s so easy. i come back to this and i think what i mean is that they’re defeated and broken inside. so they’re too tired to fight me for control, but if they have it it’s a *bad thing*. so i gotta be on guard, but there’s so little action to keep us alert. i hope that doesn’t sound mean to them, i know they’re hurting, but… it’s so hard because it’s not like i don’t hurt, or at least, i can feel the pain throughout me, so i’m not unsympathetic, i just… i don’t think thi s is the kind of hard that i’m good at. i just don’t see anyone else in here jumpin up for the job, you know? i know i shouldn’t be writing this, but i’m bored. there’s restless all in me. but i know that the stuff i wanna do i could mess things up with, just like i know that the stuff they wanna do is gonna be a problem. they can’t have a drink cuz it has calories and they will freak on how fat they are (duh) and it only makes ppl more depressed in the end. i mean, what a dumb drug. and if we take the other meds, we’ll just get so sleepy that there will be all sad and then there might be more danger (not that if i think there’s going to be actual danger coming i won’t give them their meds, cuz that would just be stupid, just the danger of being too sad and maybe me getting too mellow). i know i can’t go for a bike ride, but i wanna, and i know they can’t go for a car ride, but they wanna. and i know they can’t go on a trip, but we all kinda wanna, except that we don’t because then we wouldn’t be here for everyone when they need us, but they don’t now. i mean, they really don’t. posting here can be dangerous, but… it can be helpful too, and we need to do something. but now that we look at our conscience atm, this is probably where we should head out again. it’s getting a bit too real. we wrote the stuff at the end earlier, so we’ll sign off now. the rest is real post, it’s just dissociative posting style. peace, of embies ugh, and that was the mthr on the phone, and she wants us over for supper, but how are we going to explain this? showers aren’t allowed just right now (we took one yesterday though!), and i don’t feel like bein the one to chit-chat with them. not that they’d notice, it’s been years, my whole life and stuff. and i know they just want to be nice, but i’m kinda sick of ppl lookin at us feelin sorry for us. i dunno if i can take it from them. but at least the dog will be happy. the mags who i still have. the lucky who lives with them, he will not be so happy to have my mags over. she is very boisterous, which may confuse those of you who’ve met her. ok, i know this makes no sense, but please just bear with us on this. we can’t get to where we want to be in the healing process right now, and we think that’s ok and it makes sense and all, but it is like we are keeping yous and us out in the dark on some things. some things just take time, though. and this is one of those things that takes time, and we need to talk around it. and i hope you don’t later judge me or us and think we’re callus, because if you knew our heart you would know it’s not true. we’re just trying to get by is all. and Jill, if you’re reading this, we think that some posts are as hard to write as ten posts, and we think extra credit should be given for them. this didn’t start out as one of em, but it is now, so we hope to see at least three on our score. thank you, of embies Be bold in what you stand for and careful of what you fall for. ~ Ruth Boorstin — For more information about this posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

O.K., I still can’t read this quite whole. But I certainly don’t think it doesn’t make sense. If it really doesn’t, that must be because I doesn’t make very much just now either. ok, i know this makes no sense, but please just bear with us on this. we can’t get to where we want to be in the healing process right now, and we think that’s ok and it makes sense and all, but it is like we are keeping yous and us out in the dark on some things. some things just take time, though.

Are you me? You say this better than I’ve been able to think it, and that I appreciate muchly, but I’m sure it’s what I had oughter be saying if I could think sense at all. And taking time, much time if that’s what’s needed, is o.k., and silence is o.k., and talking around things is o.k. Impossibilities are *not required. and this is one of those things that takes time, and we need to talk around it. and i hope you don’t later judge me or us and think we’re callus, because if you knew our heart you would know it’s not true. we’re just trying to get by is all.

I do know it isn’t true. You have a beautiful heart, which shines in your writing, and it’s right sometimes to use its resources for your own needs. Lots of times and lots of time, in fact. I hope the getting by is becoming less hard, at least. Baba Yaga

Response:

I officially state that this post of embies gets to count as 4 posts I am way overwhelmed at the moment with external life stuff so I will not say any more about the rest of the post except to say that I would like to see more posts by embies of any sort of content. I think you forget sometimes that totally silly, pointless and funny posts are highly encouraged here. You don’t have to post about ’serious’ stuff at all! JUST POST! Rainbow Colors (Jill) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’m grown up enough to know how to take care of us. i keep us safe and that’s good. i mean real safe too, we’re ok. it’s not that i don’t know what happened, it’s just that i need a break, i need to keep moving – not a quiet break but a doing something else but mourning break, but none of the stuff that guarantees that we’ll be safe keeps us moving. all of the books seem kinda lame, and with the tv, there are too many breaks and too easy to drift off anyway. i dunno. no new movies, though maybe those dvd’s she got of Buffy. i just don’t trust that, it’s too…. passive? yeah, that sounds right. i try to keep them away from windows and mirrors and that’s kind of hard because they get there if i take a break, but i mean, i get bored. i keep them existing so that they can keep existing (how dumb is that?), and i know that can be tough, but right now it isn’t so. it’s more boring and hard. i mean, if i wasn’t here, that would be harder for them, but i am. it’s just hard to stay locked in place, but not because it’s actually hard (i can handle a fight) just because it’s so easy. i come back to this and i think what i mean is that they’re defeated and broken inside. so they’re too tired to fight me for control, but if they have it it’s a *bad thing*. so i gotta be on guard, but there’s so little action to keep us alert. i hope that doesn’t sound mean to them, i know they’re hurting, but… it’s so hard because it’s not like i don’t hurt, or at least, i can feel the pain throughout me, so i’m not unsympathetic, i just… i don’t think thi s is the kind of hard that i’m good at. i just don’t see anyone else in here jumpin up for the job, you know? i know i shouldn’t be writing this, but i’m bored. there’s restless all in me. but i know that the stuff i wanna do i could mess things up with, just like i know that the stuff they wanna do is gonna be a problem. they can’t have a drink cuz it has calories and they will freak on how fat they are (duh) and it only makes ppl more depressed in the end. i mean, what a dumb drug. and if we take the other meds, we’ll just get so sleepy that there will be all sad and then there might be more danger (not that if i think there’s going to be actual danger coming i won’t give them their meds, cuz that would just be stupid, just the danger of being too sad and maybe me getting too mellow). i know i can’t go for a bike ride, but i wanna, and i know they can’t go for a car ride, but they wanna. and i know they can’t go on a trip, but we all kinda wanna, except that we don’t because then we wouldn’t be here for everyone when they need us, but they don’t now. i mean, they really don’t. posting here can be dangerous, but… it can be helpful too, and we need to do something. but now that we look at our conscience atm, this is probably where we should head out again. it’s getting a bit too real. we wrote the stuff at the end earlier, so we’ll sign off now. the rest is real post, it’s just dissociative posting style. peace, of embies ugh, and that was the mthr on the phone, and she wants us over for supper, but how are we going to explain this? showers aren’t allowed just right now (we took one yesterday though!), and i don’t feel like bein the one to chit-chat with them. not that they’d notice, it’s been years, my whole life and stuff. and i know they just want to be nice, but i’m kinda sick of ppl lookin at us feelin sorry for us. i dunno if i can take it from them. but at least the dog will be happy. the mags who i still have. the lucky who lives with them, he will not be so happy to have my mags over. she is very boisterous, which may confuse those of you who’ve met her. ok, i know this makes no sense, but please just bear with us on this. we can’t get to where we want to be in the healing process right now, and we think that’s ok and it makes sense and all, but it is like we are keeping yous and us out in the dark on some things. some things just take time, though. and this is one of those things that takes time, and we need to talk around it. and i hope you don’t later judge me or us and think we’re callus, because if you knew our heart you would know it’s not true. we’re just trying to get by is all. and Jill, if you’re reading this, we think that some posts are as hard to write as ten posts, and we think extra credit should be given for them. this didn’t start out as one of em, but it is now, so we hope to see at least three on our score. thank you, of embies Be bold in what you stand for and careful of what you fall for. ~ Ruth Boorstin — For more information about this posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

– The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing we are becoming white light.

Response:

they’re not broke. they’re sad. for good reason. — astri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’m grown up enough to know how to take care of us. i keep us safe and that’s good. i mean real safe too, we’re ok. it’s not that i don’t know what happened, it’s just that i need a break, i need to keep moving – not a quiet break but a doing something else but mourning break, but none of the stuff that guarantees that we’ll be safe keeps us moving. all of the books seem kinda lame, and with the tv, there are too many breaks and too easy to drift off anyway. i dunno. no new movies, though maybe those dvd’s she got of Buffy. i just don’t trust that, it’s too…. passive? yeah, that sounds right. i try to keep them away from windows and mirrors and that’s kind of hard because they get there if i take a break, but i mean, i get bored. i keep them existing so that they can keep existing (how dumb is that?), and i know that can be tough, but right now it isn’t so. it’s more boring and hard. i mean, if i wasn’t here, that would be harder for them, but i am. it’s just hard to stay locked in place, but not because it’s actually hard (i can handle a fight) just because it’s so easy. i come back to this and i think what i mean is that they’re defeated and broken inside. so they’re too tired to fight me for control, but if they have it it’s a *bad thing*. so i gotta be on guard, but there’s so little action to keep us alert. i hope that doesn’t sound mean to them, i know they’re hurting, but… it’s so hard because it’s not like i don’t hurt, or at least, i can feel the pain throughout me, so i’m not unsympathetic, i just… i don’t think thi s is the kind of hard that i’m good at. i just don’t see anyone else in here jumpin up for the job, you know? i know i shouldn’t be writing this, but i’m bored. there’s restless all in me. but i know that the stuff i wanna do i could mess things up with, just like i know that the stuff they wanna do is gonna be a problem. they can’t have a drink cuz it has calories and they will freak on how fat they are (duh) and it only makes ppl more depressed in the end. i mean, what a dumb drug. and if we take the other meds, we’ll just get so sleepy that there will be all sad and then there might be more danger (not that if i think there’s going to be actual danger coming i won’t give them their meds, cuz that would just be stupid, just the danger of being too sad and maybe me getting too mellow). i know i can’t go for a bike ride, but i wanna, and i know they can’t go for a car ride, but they wanna. and i know they can’t go on a trip, but we all kinda wanna, except that we don’t because then we wouldn’t be here for everyone when they need us, but they don’t now. i mean, they really don’t. posting here can be dangerous, but… it can be helpful too, and we need to do something. but now that we look at our conscience atm, this is probably where we should head out again. it’s getting a bit too real. we wrote the stuff at the end earlier, so we’ll sign off now. the rest is real post, it’s just dissociative posting style. peace, of embies ugh, and that was the mthr on the phone, and she wants us over for supper, but how are we going to explain this? showers aren’t allowed just right now (we took one yesterday though!), and i don’t feel like bein the one to chit-chat with them. not that they’d notice, it’s been years, my whole life and stuff. and i know they just want to be nice, but i’m kinda sick of ppl lookin at us feelin sorry for us. i dunno if i can take it from them. but at least the dog will be happy. the mags who i still have. the lucky who lives with them, he will not be so happy to have my mags over. she is very boisterous, which may confuse those of you who’ve met her. ok, i know this makes no sense, but please just bear with us on this. we can’t get to where we want to be in the healing process right now, and we think that’s ok and it makes sense and all, but it is like we are keeping yous and us out in the dark on some things. some things just take time, though. and this is one of those things that takes time, and we need to talk around it. and i hope you don’t later judge me or us and think we’re callus, because if you knew our heart you would know it’s not true. we’re just trying to get by is all. and Jill, if you’re reading this, we think that some posts are as hard to write as ten posts, and we think extra credit should be given for them. this didn’t start out as one of em, but it is now, so we hope to see at least three on our score. thank you, of embies Be bold in what you stand for and careful of what you fall for. ~ Ruth Boorstin — For more information about this posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

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Is psychosis addictive?

Dissociative Drug

Question:

I dont think its addictive but I think it can be easy to relapse. On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:24:08 GMT, redlegion <redxleg…@yahoo.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"NecroVizier" <bu…@here.com> wrote in news:x1Lna.1862$b67.543744 >@read2.cgocable.net: >> "Von Eberstein" <Ther…@c.dk> wrote in message >> news:3e994621$0$31974$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk… >>> The nightmare voices is the wake up call. It’s terrible, I agree, but as >>> Gandhi said; ‘ The only demons that exists in our world are those within >>> ourselves.’ >> I seriously beg to differ. >No shit (‘I concur’)…

Response:

One p-doc that treated my wife told me that there was a theory, that psychosis was due to high dopamine levels, and that the brain chemistry of these high levels causes a response very much like an addictive drug. Her model seemed to be that a person with psychosis would seek to sustain and re-create this chemistry, and so would resist treatment. I did some Internet searching for other information on this model, and didn’t come up with much. George On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:49:11 GMT, "mmon…@jps.net" <mmon…@jps.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I dont think its addictive but I think it can be easy to relapse. >On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:24:08 GMT, redlegion <redxleg…@yahoo.com> >wrote: >>"NecroVizier" <bu…@here.com> wrote in news:x1Lna.1862$b67.543744 >>@read2.cgocable.net: >>> "Von Eberstein" <Ther…@c.dk> wrote in message >>> news:3e994621$0$31974$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk… >>>> The nightmare voices is the wake up call. It’s terrible, I agree, but as >>>> Gandhi said; ‘ The only demons that exists in our world are those within >>>> ourselves.’ >>> I seriously beg to differ. >>No shit (‘I concur’)…

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

"Von Eberstein" <Ther…@c.dk> wrote in message

news:3e994621$0$31974$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk… > The nightmare voices is the wake up call. It’s terrible, I agree, but as > Gandhi said; ‘ The only demons that exists in our world are those within > ourselves.’

I seriously beg to differ.

Response:

"NecroVizier" <bu…@here.com> wrote in news:x1Lna.1862$b67.543744 @read2.cgocable.net: > "Von Eberstein" <Ther…@c.dk> wrote in message > news:3e994621$0$31974$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk… >> The nightmare voices is the wake up call. It’s terrible, I agree, but as >> Gandhi said; ‘ The only demons that exists in our world are those within >> ourselves.’ > I seriously beg to differ.

No shit (‘I concur’)… — ——— redlegion

Response:

If genes are invilved as a part of our personality and behavior, there would be almost no hope for us to get better. However, if DNA would be the explanation of ‘abnormal’ behavior, then it’s a physical condition and by that I do agree. It’s important to distinct between physical based schizphrenia and psychological based schizophrenia. Psychological based sz can be cured, but he physical based sz is much harder to cure. There is also the matter of what sz actually is. I see sz as societys intolerance. Anyone who does not fit within the ‘norm’ is most possebly an sz. So all in all, I suspect that sz might be an evolutionary step up – not back. "Kalevi Rinne" <pakri…@welho.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:b76t2b$8i4$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Von Eberstein" <Ther…@c.dk> kirjoitti > viestiss

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dunno what my deal is

Dissociative Drug

Question:

i have no idea what my problem is. i just got done playing 3 boardgames with 2 very good friends – one my best friend (the one i had a fight with a few weeks ago) – and i won the last 2. and i was bored. now i’m still bored. there’s so much good in my life right now…i’m reasonably physically healthy (‘cept for the tooth and the chronic back thing which isn’t all that bad right now, and the fact that i weigh 370 lbs), i’m as employed as i want to be, have a great husb (not to say that i have no probs with him, but all in all he’s great) who’s utterly happy and content with me right now, have many friends who l*ve me and value my friendship, just…everywhere i look in my life is goodstuff (well, except for having problems working when i need to) and i feel awful. bored, empty, craving stupid things i know i can’t have, frustrated, bored – did i mention that i’m bored? i’m sitting here eating yet more sugar because it seems to be the only thing that makes the awful yearning go away at all. theory goes that if i settle down inside and listen, i’ll figure out what’s wrong. but that’s gonna involve, like, cr*ing n sh*t, and i h8 that. why can’t i just be happy with what i have? we’re not, like, scared anymore all the time. i’m even, like, exercising occasionally, and kinda enjoying it. trying to eat stuff that has, like, vitamins in it n stuff so i can get better at the dance game that’s such totally awesome exercise that i love so much. i’m just empty. somebody’s tellin me that it’s cuz i’m Bryan and i can’t feel the kids like the others can. They just feel awkward and uncomfortable to me. well, the sugar’s hit my bloodstream and life’s bearable for awhile. jt (Bryan) — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

hey there, i recognise that sugar need well, in fact im proabbaly rather addicted to what i call sugar hugs. Do you have BPD diagnosis as well? I do, and i recognise that emptiness and that boredom you feel which is symptomatic of bpd, however, dissociative disorders and bpd often cross over or come together anyway. Im having one of those needs for sugar hugs right now, have been searching around for more chocolate and think ive probably found the last of the christmas choccies and theyre not even very nice ones, but i eat them anyway. For me it comes from a need of nurturing which is often there and that hug that i want externally i give myself internally instead, and it helps the emptiness. Tho I think sugar is very much a drug. Its addictive and gives you that high and i think our bodies can become physiologically reliant on it. im quite sure mine is. Also i take it youre female too, and ive often wondered how much hormones have to do with it. Ive always had quite horrible periods and think my hormones are pretty off the wall, and i have never been so stable as i was when i was pregnant and without them. at that time i also hardly ate any chocolate, coincidence? im not so sure. so try not to feel guilty about the sugar hugs, because you might think its all psychological but i bet a lot of it is down to your bodys chemistry and physiological cravings. Ive also found potatoes are great. Though i know you cant do mashed potato as quickly as you can grab a chocolate bar, you can cook some new potatoes and keep them in the fridge. tehyre just as satisfying and guilt free!!! heheh. NOw i just need to follow my own advice and do some , bcos until i read your post i had been grazing on sweet things absent mindedly, and not been very mindful of what i was doing, but now i am, i think i shall try do something about it. bread or potatoes, mmm, take care frankii.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i have no idea what my problem is. i just got done playing 3 boardgames with 2 very good friends – one my best friend (the one i had a fight with a few weeks ago) – and i won the last 2. and i was bored. now i’m still bored. there’s so much good in my life right now…i’m reasonably physically healthy (‘cept for the tooth and the chronic back thing which isn’t all that bad right now, and the fact that i weigh 370 lbs), i’m as employed as i want to be, have a great husb (not to say that i have no probs with him, but all in all he’s great) who’s utterly happy and content with me right now, have many friends who l*ve me and value my friendship, just…everywhere i look in my life is goodstuff (well, except for having problems working when i need to) and i feel awful. bored, empty, craving stupid things i know i can’t have, frustrated, bored – did i mention that i’m bored? i’m sitting here eating yet more sugar because it seems to be the only thing that makes the awful yearning go away at all. theory goes that if i settle down inside and listen, i’ll figure out what’s wrong. but that’s gonna involve, like, cr*ing n sh*t, and i h8 that. why can’t i just be happy with what i have? we’re not, like, scared anymore all the time. i’m even, like, exercising occasionally, and kinda enjoying it. trying to eat stuff that has, like, vitamins in it n stuff so i can get better at the dance game that’s such totally awesome exercise that i love so much. i’m just empty. somebody’s tellin me that it’s cuz i’m Bryan and i can’t feel the kids like the others can. They just feel awkward and uncomfortable to me. well, the sugar’s hit my bloodstream and life’s bearable for awhile. jt (Bryan) — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

phew, it got here! that was my second attempt at sending a reply to your post and my puter froze and i thought i was going to have to type it a ll again, which im never very good at with short replies so would have never remembered all that, glad it worked

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey there, i recognise that sugar need well, in fact im proabbaly rather addicted to what i call sugar hugs. Do you have BPD diagnosis as well? I do, and i recognise that emptiness and that boredom you feel which is symptomatic of bpd, however, dissociative disorders and bpd often cross over or come together anyway. Im having one of those needs for sugar hugs right now, have been searching around for more chocolate and think ive probably found the last of the christmas choccies and theyre not even very nice ones, but i eat them anyway. For me it comes from a need of nurturing which is often there and that hug that i want externally i give myself internally instead, and it helps the emptiness. Tho I think sugar is very much a drug. Its addictive and gives you that high and i think our bodies can become physiologically reliant on it. im quite sure mine is. Also i take it youre female too, and ive often wondered how much hormones have to do with it. Ive always had quite horrible periods and think my hormones are pretty off the wall, and i have never been so stable as i was when i was pregnant and without them. at that time i also hardly ate any chocolate, coincidence? im not so sure. so try not to feel guilty about the sugar hugs, because you might think its all psychological but i bet a lot of it is down to your bodys chemistry and physiological cravings. Ive also found potatoes are great. Though i know you cant do mashed potato as quickly as you can grab a chocolate bar, you can cook some new potatoes and keep them in the fridge. tehyre just as satisfying and guilt free!!! heheh. NOw i just need to follow my own advice and do some , bcos until i read your post i had been grazing on sweet things absent mindedly, and not been very mindful of what i was doing, but now i am, i think i shall try do something about it. bread or potatoes, mmm, take care frankii. i have no idea what my problem is. i just got done playing 3 boardgames with 2 very good friends – one my best friend (the one i had a fight with a few weeks ago) – and i won the last 2. and i was bored. now i’m still bored. there’s so much good in my life right now…i’m reasonably physically healthy (‘cept for the tooth and the chronic back thing which isn’t all that bad right now, and the fact that i weigh 370 lbs), i’m as employed as i want to be, have a great husb (not to say that i have no probs with him, but all in all he’s great) who’s utterly happy and content with me right now, have many friends who l*ve me and value my friendship, just…everywhere i look in my life is goodstuff (well, except for having problems working when i need to) and i feel awful. bored, empty, craving stupid things i know i can’t have, frustrated, bored – did i mention that i’m bored? i’m sitting here eating yet more sugar because it seems to be the only thing that makes the awful yearning go away at all. theory goes that if i settle down inside and listen, i’ll figure out what’s wrong. but that’s gonna involve, like, cr*ing n sh*t, and i h8 that. why can’t i just be happy with what i have? we’re not, like, scared anymore all the time. i’m even, like, exercising occasionally, and kinda enjoying it. trying to eat stuff that has, like, vitamins in it n stuff so i can get better at the dance game that’s such totally awesome exercise that i love so much. i’m just empty. somebody’s tellin me that it’s cuz i’m Bryan and i can’t feel the kids like the others can. They just feel awkward and uncomfortable to me. well, the sugar’s hit my bloodstream and life’s bearable for awhile. jt (Bryan) — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

i managed to get a crisis going, so life got interesting for awhile. *sigh* would be interested in hearing you expound, if you’d like. jt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think this isn’t exactly what G. H*rrison meant when he wrote it, but I am thinking about where it is – that thing you are looking for: "within you and without you." I’ll elaborate, if invited, but I am guessing that you can probably enjoy elaborating on it for yourself/ves. Beauty. i have no idea what my problem is. i just got done playing 3 boardgames with 2 very good friends – one my best friend (the one i had a fight with a few weeks ago) – and i won the last 2. and i was bored. now i’m still bored. there’s so much good in my life right now…i’m reasonably physically healthy (‘cept for the tooth and the chronic back thing which isn’t all that bad right now, and the fact that i weigh 370 lbs), i’m as employed as i want to be, have a great husb (not to say that i have no probs with him, but all in all he’s great) who’s utterly happy and content with me right now, have many friends who l*ve me and value my friendship, just…everywhere i look in my life is goodstuff (well, except for having problems working when i need to) and i feel awful. bored, empty, craving stupid things i know i can’t have, frustrated, bored – did i mention that i’m bored? i’m sitting here eating yet more sugar because it seems to be the only thing that makes the awful yearning go away at all. theory goes that if i settle down inside and listen, i’ll figure out what’s wrong. but that’s gonna involve, like, cr*ing n sh*t, and i h8 that. why can’t i just be happy with what i have? we’re not, like, scared anymore all the time. i’m even, like, exercising occasionally, and kinda enjoying it. trying to eat stuff that has, like, vitamins in it n stuff so i can get better at the dance game that’s such totally awesome exercise that i love so much. i’m just empty. somebody’s tellin me that it’s cuz i’m Bryan and i can’t feel the kids like the others can. They just feel awkward and uncomfortable to me. well, the sugar’s hit my bloodstream and life’s bearable for awhile. jt (Bryan) — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

I think this isn’t exactly what G. H*rrison meant when he wrote it, but I am thinking about where it is – that thing you are looking for: "within you and without you." I’ll elaborate, if invited, but I am guessing that you can probably enjoy elaborating on it for yourself/ves. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i have no idea what my problem is. i just got done playing 3 boardgames with 2 very good friends – one my best friend (the one i had a fight with a few weeks ago) – and i won the last 2. and i was bored. now i’m still bored. there’s so much good in my life right now…i’m reasonably physically healthy (‘cept for the tooth and the chronic back thing which isn’t all that bad right now, and the fact that i weigh 370 lbs), i’m as employed as i want to be, have a great husb (not to say that i have no probs with him, but all in all he’s great) who’s utterly happy and content with me right now, have many friends who l*ve me and value my friendship, just…everywhere i look in my life is goodstuff (well, except for having problems working when i need to) and i feel awful. bored, empty, craving stupid things i know i can’t have, frustrated, bored – did i mention that i’m bored? i’m sitting here eating yet more sugar because it seems to be the only thing that makes the awful yearning go away at all. theory goes that if i settle down inside and listen, i’ll figure out what’s wrong. but that’s gonna involve, like, cr*ing n sh*t, and i h8 that. why can’t i just be happy with what i have? we’re not, like, scared anymore all the time. i’m even, like, exercising occasionally, and kinda enjoying it. trying to eat stuff that has, like, vitamins in it n stuff so i can get better at the dance game that’s such totally awesome exercise that i love so much. i’m just empty. somebody’s tellin me that it’s cuz i’m Bryan and i can’t feel the kids like the others can. They just feel awkward and uncomfortable to me. well, the sugar’s hit my bloodstream and life’s bearable for awhile. jt (Bryan) — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

On second thought, would probably be best to let Harrison speak for himself. Look on Sgt. P*pper for "Within You Without You" – I think. I was thinking about centering (w/in the self) based on alignment with a sense of harmony w/that which is essential beyond ourselves. But check what he has to say, because there’s bound to be lots more than that in what he says and I haven’t listened to the song in a while. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i managed to get a crisis going, so life got interesting for awhile. *sigh* would be interested in hearing you expound, if you’d like. jt I think this isn’t exactly what G. H*rrison meant when he wrote it, but I am thinking about where it is – that thing you are looking for: "within you and without you." I’ll elaborate, if invited, but I am guessing that you can probably enjoy elaborating on it for yourself/ves. Beauty. i have no idea what my problem is. i just got done playing 3 boardgames with 2 very good friends – one my best friend (the one i had a fight with a few weeks ago) – and i won the last 2. and i was bored. now i’m still bored. there’s so much good in my life right now…i’m reasonably physically healthy (‘cept for the tooth and the chronic back thing which isn’t all that bad right now, and the fact that i weigh 370 lbs), i’m as employed as i want to be, have a great husb (not to say that i have no probs with him, but all in all he’s great) who’s utterly happy and content with me right now, have many friends who l*ve me and value my friendship, just…everywhere i look in my life is goodstuff (well, except for having problems working when i need to) and i feel awful. bored, empty, craving stupid things i know i can’t have, frustrated, bored – did i mention that i’m bored? i’m sitting here eating yet more sugar because it seems to be the only thing that makes the awful yearning go away at all. theory goes that if i settle down inside and listen, i’ll figure out what’s wrong. but that’s gonna involve, like, cr*ing n sh*t, and i h8 that. why can’t i just be happy with what i have? we’re not, like, scared anymore all the time. i’m even, like, exercising occasionally, and kinda enjoying it. trying to eat stuff that has, like, vitamins in it n stuff so i can get better at the dance game that’s such totally awesome exercise that i love so much. i’m just empty. somebody’s tellin me that it’s cuz i’m Bryan and i can’t feel the kids like the others can. They just feel awkward and uncomfortable to me. well, the sugar’s hit my bloodstream and life’s bearable for awhile. jt (Bryan) — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

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EFFEXOR WITHDRAWAL WARNING

Dissociative Drug

Question:

Do NOT let any doctor tell you that it is possible to go off of, completely and totally off of, effexor in one week. I WAS in the midst of switching to a different drug, but after two nights of hearing "snap, crackle, and pop" (without the Rice Krispies) and last night, falling down twice due to dizziness, my beliefs that my doctor gave me about how "easy" effexor is to go off of are down the tubes. Meanwhile, I’m gonna stay on the "shit" just so that I don’t have the withdrawal sypmtoms. I can’t believe this. Had I known six year ago, that effexor would cause such severe withdrawal probs, I never ever would have taken it to begin with. Ain’t gonna be going anywhere today – the dizziness is still kinda weird, but at least the noises have stopped in my head. I thought I was cartwheeling out of reality too. Anybody else have this happen to them? Best, Luanne http://members.aol.com/luannep/adoption.htm

Response:

>Anybody else have this happen to them? >Best, >Luanne

Hi Luanne, Sometimes I feel like the Queen of Weird Drug Reactions. It is so frustrating to have a doc say "well, that can’t happen" or "that doesn’t happen" as you are sitting there experiencing it. I’m sorry that you are having a hard time and hope you are doing better soon. ~Kat

Response:

well, i haven’t been officially taken off of effexor – but during the times when i’ve been lax about taking my meds, the symtoms i experience motivate me to get back on them FAST. i dont know what you call it, but i get that weird head thing… where it feels like you’re whole head is focusing far away and then near really fast and you’re skin is detaching from your skull… i dont know how to explain it, although i’ve heard others explain it quite well. i get dizzy and all that, too, but the main one is the weird rush thing that i tried to explain up above…. -geeg

Response:

hello Luanne, no competent doctor would say it is okay to go off effexor that quickly. slow, slow titration down for effexor. there is no more notorious an antidepressant for withdrawal symptoms. i’ve deadstopped from 400 mg to none and had no effect, and dead-stopped off of 150 and had bad effects. < shrugs > nightmares and odd dreams are common from the withdrawal, and i’ve had them. also other sleep disturbances, genreally sleeping more, but unsatisfying sleep. also the pan-in/zoom-out dissociative effect. not me, but a lot get it. you know, like when, typically in a horror or suspense or thriller flick, the camera lens will zoom in on the shot while the camera itself will pan back away from it. or vice versa, same deal. so you get the bigger/smaller thing at once, rushing/receding simultaneously. usually there is a time delay or speed-up effect to it as well. then of course there’s badass headaches. recomendation for titrating down if you’re having big problems: say you are on 300mg. take away 25mg every three to seven days until you’re off of it. if you’re on less, say 150mg, maybe titrate down 12.5 mg every three to seven days. then wait a week at least to switch to the new drug [don;t want to risk serotonin sydrome], more if the new drug is an MAO inhibitor. anyway, i sympathize. your doctor is a renob. o, another note: if you’re on any other drugs, that could definitely account for your more severe reaction from coming off effexor. –eliphaz "LuanneMarie" <luannema…@aol.comstopjunk> wrote in message

news:20020401161622.00576.00001751@mb-md.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do NOT let any doctor tell you that it is possible to go off of, completely and > totally off of, effexor in one week. I WAS in the midst of switching to a > different drug, but after two nights of hearing "snap, crackle, and pop" > (without the Rice Krispies) and last night, falling down twice due to > dizziness, my beliefs that my doctor gave me about how "easy" effexor is to go > off of are down the tubes. > Meanwhile, I’m gonna stay on the "shit" just so that I don’t have the > withdrawal sypmtoms. I can’t believe this. Had I known six year ago, that > effexor would cause such severe withdrawal probs, I never ever would have taken > it to begin with. Ain’t gonna be going anywhere today – the dizziness is still > kinda weird, but at least the noises have stopped in my head. I thought I was > cartwheeling out of reality too. > Anybody else have this happen to them? > Best, > Luanne > http://members.aol.com/luannep/adoption.htm

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methylphenidate + dextromethorphan

Dissociative Drug

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – nope. it was a line in the first paragraph he wrote that I was reacting to. I really don’t think sarcasm is appropriate when talking about serious matters like brain damage. and you think this idiot’s attitude toward substance abuse (to recap: "I am a recreational drug user….") is an more appropriate? I failed to see anything so bizarre about what he wrote. I’m not saying he couldn’t have brain damage, but all he did was use DXM to get high; not an unusual drug these days. It’s that attitude, not the substance he’s using or not using now that’s going to get him into a detox. What is your deal with detox? Not even all hard-drug users and alcoholics need that. He’s just a tripper. never met one person in a detox who didn’t start out "just tripping." i know lots of kids , as iam a kid, who do hard drugs (coke, H, Oxy) non of them trip.

how can you do coke, heroin, oxy, etc. and not trip? by definition you consciousness is altered. — Love is a fruit in season at all times, and within reach of every hand. Mother Teresa http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm for mail remove PETERHOOD69

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – nope. it was a line in the first paragraph he wrote that I was reacting to. I really don’t think sarcasm is appropriate when talking about serious matters like brain damage. and you think this idiot’s attitude toward substance abuse (to recap: "I am a recreational drug user….") is an more appropriate? I failed to see anything so bizarre about what he wrote. I’m not saying he couldn’t have brain damage, but all he did was use DXM to get high; not an unusual drug these days. It’s that attitude, not the substance he’s using or not using now that’s going to get him into a detox. What is your deal with detox? Not even all hard-drug users and alcoholics need that. He’s just a tripper. never met one person in a detox who didn’t start out "just tripping." i know lots of kids , as iam a kid, who do hard drugs (coke, H, Oxy) non of them trip. how can you do coke, heroin, oxy, etc. and not trip? by definition you consciousness is altered.

I think you’re dealing with terms of art here. A "trip" is not necessarily the same as a "high"–both are altered consciousness but the details are different. — — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

It’s that attitude, not the substance he’s using or not using now that’s going to get him into a detox. What is your deal with detox? Not even all hard-drug users and alcoholics need that. He’s just a tripper. never met one person in a detox who didn’t start out "just tripping." if he doesn’t want to be perceived as a drug abuser, he should think twice about how he presents himself.

You’re projecting your own values onto others. — Joel Crump

Response:

watchin’ you guys argue is quite amusing. =) As far as Olney’s lesions go, I have my doubts as well, at least I don’t think it’s likely. Although I don’t remember much about what they are. However, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that some of my memory problems (and by problems, I don’t mean sever problems, I just forget the details of things very easily, unless I make a point to remember) could be linked to DXM. I could also see them being linked to MDMA, MDEA or ADHD or none of the above. I can’t if my memory was this bada before i did drugs, b/c to be honest I can’t remember (hehe). However, my mother has always told me that I’ve been absent minded my whole life, so who knows. -KoolAid

Response:

let me know if you want the names of some good detoxes

Just because someone uses recreationally does not mean that they will end up in detox. Besides, detox is a 24-hour holding tank for people who are intoxicated and causing a raucus. I believe what you are attempting to refer to is rehab. Given that I have all As going in school (except for 1 B+), and I have noticed no impairment in any of the areas that Olney’s lesions affect, plus the fact that I have done doses 16 times those which I am recommending suggests that Olneys lesions are about as valid for the pattern of usage I’m suggesting as water intoxication. Oh, and since I know how much you’d like to take alt.drugs out of the header so you can all swarm me, I’m reading this topic from there only.

As long as your education or social life isn’t suffering…have fun. I may not be the best role model for younger people, but I’m not the worst either. Throughout school my grades were pour due to my Comorbid ADD. However, my grades did decrease after I started smoking (I got them from my mother). I didn’t inhale though. My mother didn’t notice, because she was too busy with her drinking habit. After a short stint in the hospital…oh yes…for suicide…not drugs, I moved with my dad. A couple of months later, I was a sophmore in high school, I started inhaling…my grades went up….Hell, my grades went up after I started smoking weed. Not regularly mind you. My friends and I thought it was inanely stupid to smoke weed during school…let alone on campus. Then, the summer between my sophmore and junior year came. I smoked a lot of weed. I also tried acid. The grades during my junior year were awful. Of course, my grandpa died, my mom got imprisoned for 10 days and probabtion for 2 years for burglary and menacing (they were trying to get her for 3 counts of attempted murder), and I was beginning to realize that society, life, and school weren’t all they’re cracked up to be. Oh yes, not to mention I have ADD. I haven’t smoked weed in about a year…give or take or acid. I earned my Associates Degree in Computer Technology with a 3.4 gpa. I worked while doing it…though not regularly. Funny that. I held down a job for a year and a half during my junior and senior year in high school. I haven’t held down a job since for longer than 5 months. That was 5 years ago. I have done an extremely small amount of drugs during that 5 years. Actually, come to think of it. I think 5 mo. is the second longest….everything else is about a month or two. What’s funny about that, is I started doing a fair amount of drugs during that 5 month job stint. Hm…..Doing drugs keeps me in a job. Well… Do you see where I’m going with this? You can’t just take one fact when predicting weather or not someone will go to rehab. The effects that drugs had on my life were extrememly minimal in comparison to the effects my life had on my life. My mother is an extremely unstable person, my father isn’t a great support, my 15-yr. old brother has his own problems…I have no other family to speak of. My support is my own. I have plenty of examples of what not to do in my life…becoming an addict or alcoholic is one of them. I’ll use. I’ll enjoy it. I’ll never overuse it. I’ll never go to rehab. I always drive safe when out drinking with friends. I rarely (if ever) make a public nusiance of myself while intoxicated. You could say that I’ll change my mind, or something will happen…or whatever, but don’t. You have no idea what life with my mother is like…Oh…did I mention the fact that I had to put a restraining order on her in the past year, because she attacked me? Guess what? She was sober…that’s the scariest thing of all. I don’t want to be her. I already see parts of her in me….like talking too much. I’ll use. I’ll enjoy it. I’ll never abuse. To…nobody, Keep on those straight A’s…high school is a huge joke and waste of time (except math…I didn’t learn proper grammar until 3 years out of high school…this isn’t a very good example of it, but grammar takes a lot of work), but once you get through it…there’s college. Elizabeth

Response:

PS. To Mark Your site has nothing interesting on any topic having anything to do with neuroscience. Just because you studied it…doesn’t mean you’re an expert in it.

Response:

let me know if you want the names of some good detoxes Just because someone uses recreationally does not mean that they will end up in detox.

True, but a much higher percentage of those folks will end up in a detox as compared to those who never use drugs recreationally. Besides, detox is a 24-hour holding tank for people who are intoxicated and causing a raucus.

not the detox I worked in. I believe what you are attempting to refer to is rehab.

I usually mean what I say and I meant detox. — Love is a fruit in season at all times, and within reach of every hand. Mother Teresa http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm for mail remove PETERHOOD69

Response:

PS. To Mark Your site has nothing interesting on any topic having anything to do with neuroscience. Just because you studied it…doesn’t mean you’re an expert in it.

my doctorate and license say otherwise. — Love is a fruit in season at all times, and within reach of every hand. Mother Teresa http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm for mail remove PETERHOOD69

Response:

PS. To Mark Your site has nothing interesting on any topic having anything to do with neuroscience.

just for the record, where did I say that it did? Just because you studied it…doesn’t mean you’re an expert in it.

and that is based on less than 3 minutes exposure? Gee, glad you weren’t on the comittee that awarded me the doctorate or gave me a licence to practice or accepted my articles for publication. — Love is a fruit in season at all times, and within reach of every hand. Mother Teresa http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm for mail remove PETERHOOD69

Response:

I respond to this whole entire thread. Not just this branch. PS. To Mark Your site has nothing interesting on any topic having anything to do with neuroscience. just for the record, where did I say that it did?

–In response to Joel Crump you said, " It’s that attitude, not the substance he’s using or not using now that’s going to get him into a detox. And had you looked at my webpage, you should have had a clue that I take brain damage more than seriously. " It was meant to point out a flaw in an argument. Nothing personal. Just because you studied it…doesn’t mean you’re an expert in it. and that is based on less than 3 minutes exposure? Gee, glad you weren’t on the comittee that awarded me the doctorate or gave me a licence to practice or accepted my articles for publication.

There you go assuming again. I’m glad you mentioned your doctorate once again. I hadn’t quite got it the first several times. (If you’re here, because you’re AD/HD, then I understand, but if you’re not….hmm…maybe you should have that looked at ). Like I said. Just because you studied it, doesn’t mean you’re an expert in it. Here’s the flaw. You assumed extremely quick that the kid would end up addicted to the drug. Did it ever occur to you to praise him for the strength to overcome peer pressure and other factors that encourage him to abuse? Reward the bad behavior, ignore the good, is the wrong attitude to take towards children…especially children with a mental disorder. What about responding to his straight A’s with a compliment? Did it ever occur to you that his parents are/were addicts or dead? You made the argument that I couldn’t have come to the conclusion that you may not know all that you think you know in "less than 3 minutes". Well, the same applies here. Except, you seemed to have made the assumption in less than the time it takes for you to read the word "drug". I never made the statement that you absolutely do not know what you are talking about, or that you have no understanding of the psychology field. What I am saying is that, like all things, one can never have a complete understanding. You do NOT know EVERYthing about the psychology field, though, you must know a lot to have earned a Doctorate. That statement was a carefully formulated attempt to get a rise out of you, causing you to make another flaw in your argument that I can jump on. I like a good debate. Again, nothing personal. I just don’t like seeing kids being beat up by adults for making the decisions that they’ve made when they didn’t have good adult guidance BEFORE they made the decicion. Reward the bad, punish the good.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – nope. it was a line in the first paragraph he wrote that I was reacting to. I really don’t think sarcasm is appropriate when talking about serious matters like brain damage. and you think this idiot’s attitude toward substance abuse (to recap: "I am a recreational drug user….") is an more appropriate? I failed to see anything so bizarre about what he wrote. I’m not saying he couldn’t have brain damage, but all he did was use DXM to get high; not an unusual drug these days. It’s that attitude, not the substance he’s using or not using now that’s going to get him into a detox. What is your deal with detox? Not even all hard-drug users and alcoholics need that. He’s just a tripper. never met one person in a detox who didn’t start out "just tripping."

i know lots of kids , as iam a kid, who do hard drugs (coke, H, Oxy) non of them trip. explain to me how they started out tripping, when they jumped right on to the hard drugs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if he doesn’t want to be perceived as a drug abuser, he should think twice about how he presents himself. And had you looked at my webpage, you should have had a clue that I take brain damage more than seriously. I’m sure that’s true. I don’t make a habit of looking at every web URL I come across, though. — Joel Crump — Love is a fruit in season at all times, and within reach of every hand. Mother Teresa http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm for mail remove PETERHOOD69

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I respond to this whole entire thread. Not just this branch. PS. To Mark Your site has nothing interesting on any topic having anything to do with neuroscience. just for the record, where did I say that it did? –In response to Joel Crump you said, " It’s that attitude, not the substance he’s using or not using now that’s going to get him into a detox. And had you looked at my webpage, you should have had a clue that I take brain damage more than seriously. " It was meant to point out a flaw in an argument. Nothing personal. if it was meant to point out a flaw in an argument, you did not succeed. As you correctly noted, i referred him to my web page as a hint that I take brain damage seriously. That web page makes it perfectly clear that I am a clinical neuropsychologist (with an interest in brain function and brain damage). pure and simple. Just because you studied it…doesn’t mean you’re an expert in it. and that is based on less than 3 minutes exposure? Gee, glad you weren’t on the comittee that awarded me the doctorate or gave me a licence to practice or accepted my articles for publication. There you go assuming again. I’m glad you mentioned your doctorate once again. I hadn’t quite got it the first several times. (If you’re here, because you’re AD/HD, then I understand, but if you’re not….hmm…maybe you should have that looked at ). Like I said. Just because you studied it, doesn’t mean you’re an expert in it. Here’s the flaw. You assumed extremely quick that the kid would end up addicted to the drug. no, you are assuming that I am assuming. Did it ever occur to you to praise him for the strength to overcome peer pressure and other factors that encourage him to abuse? he advertises that he currently abuses. ergo, he has not overcome the peer pressure. why would you assume peer pressure makes him to drugs?

Did I say that peer pressure made him do drugs? I said that there was nothing in his statement to defend the assertion that he has overcome peer pressure. Im 15,

gawd, don’t they teach reading in schools nowadays. — Love is a fruit in season at all times, and within reach of every hand. Mother Teresa http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm for mail remove PETERHOOD69

Response:

if it was meant to point out a flaw in an argument, you did not succeed. As you correctly noted, i referred him to my web page as a hint that I take brain damage seriously. That web page makes it perfectly clear that I am a clinical neuropsychologist (with an interest in brain function and brain damage). pure and simple. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just because you studied it…doesn’t mean you’re an expert in it. and that is based on less than 3 minutes exposure? Gee, glad you weren’t on the comittee that awarded me the doctorate or gave me a licence to practice or accepted my articles for publication. There you go assuming again. I’m glad you mentioned your doctorate once again. I hadn’t quite got it the first several times. (If you’re here, because you’re AD/HD, then I understand, but if you’re not….hmm…maybe you should have that looked at ). Like I said. Just because you studied it, doesn’t mean you’re an expert in it. Here’s the flaw. You assumed extremely quick that the kid would end up addicted to the drug.

no, you are assuming that I am assuming. Did it ever occur to you to praise him for the strength to overcome peer pressure and other factors that encourage him to abuse?

he advertises that he currently abuses. ergo, he has not overcome the peer pressure. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reward the bad behavior, ignore the good, is the wrong attitude to take towards children…especially children with a mental disorder. What about responding to his straight A’s with a compliment? Did it ever occur to you that his parents are/were addicts or dead? You made the argument that I couldn’t have come to the conclusion that you may not know all that you think you know in "less than 3 minutes". Well, the same applies here. Except, you seemed to have made the assumption in less than the time it takes for you to read the word "drug". I never made the statement that you absolutely do not know what you are talking about, or that you have no understanding of the psychology field. What I am saying is that, like all things, one can never have a complete understanding. You do NOT know EVERYthing about the psychology field, though, you must know a lot to have earned a Doctorate. That statement was a carefully formulated attempt to get a rise out of you, causing you to make another flaw in your argument that I can jump on. I like a good debate.

no, but the doctorate and the credentials in neuropsych do make me an expert in this field. Again, nothing personal. I just don’t like seeing kids being beat up by adults for making the decisions that they’ve made when they didn’t have good adult guidance BEFORE they made the decicion. Reward the bad, punish the good.

rewarding the bad is going to increase the probability of the bad occuring. — Love is a fruit in season at all times, and within reach of every hand. Mother Teresa http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm for mail remove PETERHOOD69

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I respond to this whole entire thread. Not just this branch. PS. To Mark Your site has nothing interesting on any topic having anything to do with neuroscience. just for the record, where did I say that it did? –In response to Joel Crump you said, " It’s that attitude, not the substance he’s using or not using now that’s going to get him into a detox. And had you looked at my webpage, you should have had a clue that I take brain damage more than seriously. " It was meant to point out a flaw in an argument. Nothing personal. if it was meant to point out a flaw in an argument, you did not succeed. As you correctly noted, i referred him to my web page as a hint that I take brain damage seriously. That web page makes it perfectly clear that I am a clinical neuropsychologist (with an interest in brain function and brain damage). pure and simple. Just because you studied it…doesn’t mean you’re an expert in it. and that is based on less than 3 minutes exposure? Gee, glad you weren’t on the comittee that awarded me the doctorate or gave me a licence to practice or accepted my articles for publication. There you go assuming again. I’m glad you mentioned your doctorate once again. I hadn’t quite got it the first several times. (If you’re here, because you’re AD/HD, then I understand, but if you’re not….hmm…maybe you should have that looked at ). Like I said. Just because you studied it, doesn’t mean you’re an expert in it. Here’s the flaw. You assumed extremely quick that the kid would end up addicted to the drug. no, you are assuming that I am assuming. Did it ever occur to you to praise him for the strength to overcome peer pressure and other factors that encourage him to abuse? he advertises that he currently abuses. ergo, he has not overcome the peer pressure.

why would you assume peer pressure makes him to drugs? Im 15, i do a wide range of drugs, all by my self, i seek out the drugs BY MY SELF, i take the drugs BY MY SELF, and i explore new states of mind, BY My SELF, this kid obviously dosnt take dexo because his friends do it, he takes it because it helps him use the creative side of his brain. and maybe he just likes the way it feels when he is high, not the way it makes him seem to other people, shit , if i told a friend i drink a bottle a bottle of Robo to get trip , they would think im crazy, so dont assume all kids that do drugs do them out of peer pressure… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reward the bad behavior, ignore the good, is the wrong attitude to take towards children…especially children with a mental disorder. What about responding to his straight A’s with a compliment? Did it ever occur to you that his parents are/were addicts or dead? You made the argument that I couldn’t have come to the conclusion that you may not know all that you think you know in "less than 3 minutes". Well, the same applies here. Except, you seemed to have made the assumption in less than the time it takes for you to read the word "drug". I never made the statement that you absolutely do not know what you are talking about, or that you have no understanding of the psychology field. What I am saying is that, like all things, one can never have a complete understanding. You do NOT know EVERYthing about the psychology field, though, you must know a lot to have earned a Doctorate. That statement was a carefully formulated attempt to get a rise out of you, causing you to make another flaw in your argument that I can jump on. I like a good debate. no, but the doctorate and the credentials in neuropsych do make me an expert in this field. Again, nothing personal. I just don’t like seeing kids being beat up by adults for making the decisions that they’ve made when they didn’t have good adult guidance BEFORE they made the decicion. Reward the bad, punish the good. rewarding the bad is going to increase the probability of the bad occuring. — Love is a fruit in season at all times, and within reach of every hand. Mother Teresa http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm for mail remove PETERHOOD69

Response:

I respond to this whole entire thread. Not just this branch. Just because you studied it…doesn’t mean you’re an expert in it. and that is based on less than 3 minutes exposure? Gee, glad you weren’t on the comittee that awarded me the doctorate or gave me a licence to practice or accepted my articles for publication. There you go assuming again. I’m glad you mentioned your doctorate once again. I hadn’t quite got it the first several times. (If you’re here, because you’re AD/HD, then I understand, but if you’re not….hmm…maybe you should have that looked at ). Like I said. Just because you studied it, doesn’t mean you’re an expert in it.

You ought to know that doctorates are awarded only to people who have demonstrated clearly that they have become experts. I won’t go into the detailed definitions of "expert" and "expertise" that are part of the guidelines for the awarding of doctorates, but you can rest assured that by these formal and very demanding definitions of expertise Mark is an expert of internationally recognised academic quality in the topic he studied. If you have what we in the trade refer to as a first class mind it takes roughly a decade to acquire that kind of expertise. I never made the statement that you absolutely do not know what you are talking about, or that you have no understanding of the psychology field. What I am saying is that, like all things, one can never have a complete understanding. You do NOT know EVERYthing about the psychology field, though, you must know a lot to have earned a Doctorate.

Ok, so after first having claimed that Mark wasn’t necessarily an expert, you have now backed off to the much weaker claim that what you really meant was that he doesn’t know *everything* about psychology. Big deal! There is nobody on this entire planet who knows *everything* about psychology. It’s very likely beyond the capability of the human mind, any human mind. That statement was a carefully formulated attempt to get a rise out of you, causing you to make another flaw in your argument that I can jump on. I like a good debate.

Do be careful. So far you’ve dug a hole and fallen in. Do you really want to keep on digging? — School of Artificial Intelligence, Division of Informatics Edinburgh University, 5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/daidb/people/homes/cam/ ] DoD #205

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I respond to this whole entire thread. Not just this branch. Just because you studied it…doesn’t mean you’re an expert in it. and that is based on less than 3 minutes exposure? Gee, glad you weren’t on the comittee that awarded me the doctorate or gave me a licence to practice or accepted my articles for publication. There you go assuming again. I’m glad you mentioned your doctorate once again. I hadn’t quite got it the first several times. (If you’re here, because you’re AD/HD, then I understand, but if you’re not….hmm…maybe you should have that looked at ). Like I said. Just because you studied it, doesn’t mean you’re an expert in it. You ought to know that doctorates are awarded only to people who have demonstrated clearly that they have become experts. I won’t go into the detailed definitions of "expert" and "expertise" that are part of the guidelines for the awarding of doctorates, but you can rest assured that by these formal and very demanding definitions of expertise Mark is an expert of internationally recognised academic quality in the topic he studied. If you have what we in the trade refer to as a first class mind it takes roughly a decade to acquire that kind of expertise. I never made the statement that you absolutely do not know what you are talking about, or that you have no understanding of the psychology field. What I am saying is that, like all things, one can never have a complete understanding. You do NOT know EVERYthing about the psychology field, though, you must know a lot to have earned a Doctorate. Ok, so after first having claimed that Mark wasn’t necessarily an expert, you have now backed off to the much weaker claim that what you really meant was that he doesn’t know *everything* about psychology. Big deal! There is nobody on this entire planet who knows *everything* about psychology. It’s very likely beyond the capability of the human mind, any human mind. That statement was a carefully formulated attempt to get a rise out of you, causing you to make another flaw in your argument that I can jump on. I like a good debate. Do be careful. So far you’ve dug a hole and fallen in. Do you really want to keep on digging?

Actually, she makes a good point. For all this Mark character’s doctoral wisdom, he can’t get past his prejudices. — Joel Crump

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x-posted to alt.drugs and alt.support.attn-deficit. I find it relevant to both groups, so please leave the newsgroup line intact. I’m a 150-pound recreational drug user who also has ADD. One of my favorite drugs is dextromethorphan, a dissociative agent better-known as a cough suppressant. I find that methylphenidate (I take Concerta) impairs creativity. I am on 1 36mg Concerta (time-release intact) and 90mg dextromethorphan (3 capfuls from the thing on the top of Robitussin Maximum Strength Cough, filled to the top line). This very low dose of dex doesn’t impair me at all, and makes it easier to be creative while on methylphenidate. Methylphenidate is also good with higher doses of DXM, as it makes the trip clearer for me and, if taken the day after, eliminates the hangover and turns it into more of a ‘afterglow’. I don’t at all recommend this for children, but anyone in high school or older (I’m 15) could probably use a little dex with their ritalin if they have a writing assignment to get done. The best type of cough syrup to buy is Robitussin Maximum Strength Cough. Other kinds have other ingredients which are very bad for you. www.third-plateau.org/medicines/robomax.jpg Since you’re probably not taking it to get high, I would start at 60mg (a capfull filled up to the top line is 30mg), and up the dose until you start to get uncomfortable (or start walking strangely). Don’t do it every day, just when you need to go write a paper or something like that. Do not mention Olney’s Lesions, as I have done high doses (2-4 bottles) of this stuff weekly, and have no detectable brain damage. If anything, it’s made me smarter (I used to have the same opinion about ADD as alexplore has). You’re more likely to fry your brain by drinking water than by doing this. Please do not flame me for recreationally altering my state of consciousness, you are not going to change my mind, so don’t even try. — This post was anonymized at http://www.xganon.com Come visit the newest xganon server http://www.xganon.org providing rights and freedom related news. —

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Do not mention Olney’s Lesions, as I have done high doses (2-4 bottles) of this stuff weekly, and have no detectable brain damage.

I suppose you have given yourself brain scans to verify this too, right? let me know if you want the names of some good detoxes — Love is a fruit in season at all times, and within reach of every hand. Mother Teresa http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm for mail remove PETERHOOD69

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I suppose you have given yourself brain scans to verify this too, right? let me know if you want the names of some good detoxes

Given that I have all As going in school (except for 1 B+), and I have noticed no impairment in any of the areas that Olney’s lesions affect, plus the fact that I have done doses 16 times those which I am recommending suggests that Olneys lesions are about as valid for the pattern of usage I’m suggesting as water intoxication. Oh, and since I know how much you’d like to take alt.drugs out of the header so you can all swarm me, I’m reading this topic from there only. — This post was anonymized at http://www.xganon.com Come visit the newest xganon server http://www.xganon.org providing rights and freedom related news. —

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Detoxing from dextromethorphan… hmm. Something tells me you actually believed what your school told you about drugs. — Joel Crump

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Do not mention Olney’s Lesions, as I have done high doses (2-4 bottles) of this stuff weekly, and have no detectable brain damage. I suppose you have given yourself brain scans to verify this too, right? let me know if you want the names of some good detoxes Detoxing from dextromethorphan… hmm. Something tells me you actually believed what your school told you about drugs.

nope. it was a line in the first paragraph he wrote that I was reacting to. — Love is a fruit in season at all times, and within reach of every hand. Mother Teresa http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm for mail remove PETERHOOD69

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I really don’t think sarcasm is appropriate when talking about serious matters like brain damage. — Joel Crump

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do not mention Olney’s Lesions, as I have done high doses (2-4 bottles) of this stuff weekly, and have no detectable brain damage. I suppose you have given yourself brain scans to verify this too, right? let me know if you want the names of some good detoxes Detoxing from dextromethorphan… hmm. Something tells me you actually believed what your school told you about drugs. nope. it was a line in the first paragraph he wrote that I was reacting to. I really don’t think sarcasm is appropriate when talking about serious matters like brain damage. — Joel Crump

and you think this idiot’s attitude toward substance abuse (to recap: "I am a recreational drug user….") is an more appropriate? It’s that attitude, not the substance he’s using or not using now that’s going to get him into a detox. And had you looked at my webpage, you should have had a clue that I take brain damage more than seriously. — Love is a fruit in season at all times, and within reach of every hand. Mother Teresa http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm for mail remove PETERHOOD69

Response:

nope. it was a line in the first paragraph he wrote that I was reacting to. I really don’t think sarcasm is appropriate when talking about serious matters like brain damage. and you think this idiot’s attitude toward substance abuse (to recap: "I am a recreational drug user….") is an more appropriate?

I failed to see anything so bizarre about what he wrote. I’m not saying he couldn’t have brain damage, but all he did was use DXM to get high; not an unusual drug these days. It’s that attitude, not the substance he’s using or not using now that’s going to get him into a detox.

What is your deal with detox? Not even all hard-drug users and alcoholics need that. He’s just a tripper. And had you looked at my webpage, you should have had a clue that I take brain damage more than seriously.

I’m sure that’s true. I don’t make a habit of looking at every web URL I come across, though. — Joel Crump

Response:

never met one person in a detox who didn’t start out "just tripping." if he doesn’t want to be perceived as a drug abuser, he should think twice about how he presents himself. And had you looked at my webpage, you should have had a clue that I take brain damage more than seriously. I’m sure that’s true. I don’t make a habit of looking at every web URL I come across, though. — Joel Crump

– Love is a fruit in season at all times, and within reach of every hand. Mother Teresa http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm for mail remove PETERHOOD69

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Prescription Drugs – The Reason Behind The Madness

Dissociative Drug

Question:

Prescription Drugs – The Reason Behind The Madness By Dr. Julian Whitaker, M.D. Health and Healing: Tomorrow’s Medicine Today – November, 1999 1-10-2000 As I was writing last month’s issue of Health & Healing, Buford O’Neal Furrow Jr. walked into the North Valley Jewish Community Center in Los Angeles and, without a word, fired 70 rounds with a Uzi-type gun, wounding five people. A month earlier, Mark Barton murdered his wife and two children and then methodically and dispassionately gunned down 21 people in two brokerage firms in Atlanta, killing nine. These and virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the past decade have had one thing in common: THEY WERE PERPETRATED BY PEOPLE TAKING PROZAC, ZOLOFT, LUVOX, PAXIL OR A RELATED ANTI-DEPRESSANT DRUG. Last month, I warned you about the dangers of these selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) and detailed a few of the scores of murders, suicides, and other acts of violence committed by people taking Prozac-like drugs. THESE DRUGS CAN CAUSE AKATHISIA, MENTAL AND PHYSICAL AGITATION THAT SPARKS SELF-DESTRUCTIVE, VIOLENT BEHAVIOR. They can also induce dissociative reactions, making those who take the drugs INSENSITIVE TO THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR BEHAVIOR. This is the type of drug that Eric Harris was taking when he walked into Columbine High School and massacred his fellow students. Kip Kinkel, who killed his parents, then went to his high school in Oregon, killed two students and wounded 22 others, was taking PROZAC. Joseph Wesbecker was taking Prozac when he killed seven people with an AK-47 at a printing plant in Kentucky, before taking his own life. It’s Not Guns And It’s Not Movies Atrocities such as these have become disturbingly common over the past few years. We as a society are searching for reasons to explain these grizzly murders, which have torn at the heart and soul of the American culture. In a desperate effort to stave off future catastrophes, we’ve been instituting stringent gun control measures and considering censorship of movies. Folks, guns and movies don’t cause these tragically frequent episodes of inexplicable violence. The real reason is written out on a prescription pad by psychiatrists and doctors all over the country–these monstrous acts were done not by criminals, but ordinary people high on prescription drugs. Yet the overuse of PROZAC-LIKE DRUGS is not even a part of the national debate, and those who sound the warning against them are ignored. I can only surmise that the reason the FDA continues to disregard these mounting SSRI-related casualties is because of this agency’s close alliance with the multi-billion-dollar drug companies. Just imagine what the FDA would do if there were evidence that these massacres were performed by people taking natural antidepressants.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Breakfast Cereals – The Reason Behind The Madness By Dr. Julian Whitaker, M.D. Health and Healing: Tomorrow’s Medicine Today – November, 1999 1-10-2000 As I was writing last month’s issue of Health & Healing, Buford O’Neal Furrow Jr. walked into the North Valley Jewish Community Center in Los Angeles and, without a word, fired 70 rounds with a Uzi-type gun, wounding five people. A month earlier, Mark Barton murdered his wife and two children and then methodically and dispassionately gunned down 21 people in two brokerage firms in Atlanta, killing nine. These and virtually all of the gun-related massacres that have made headlines over the past decade have had one thing in common: THEY WERE PERPETRATED BY PEOPLE WHO HAD EATEN CHEERIOS, GRAPE NUTS, RAISIN BRAN, HONEY BUNCHES OF OATS OR A RELATED BREAKFAST CEREAL. Last month, I warned you about the dangers of these sugary, grain-based commercial breakfast cereals and detailed a few of the scores of murders, suicides, and other acts of violence committed by people eating Special K-like cereals. THESE CEREALS CAN CAUSE AKATHISIA, MENTAL AND PHYSICAL AGITATION THAT SPARKS SELF-DESTRUCTIVE, VIOLENT BEHAVIOR. They can also induce dissociative reactions, making those who take the drugs INSENSITIVE TO THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR BEHAVIOR. This is the type of cereal that Eric Harris had eaten when he walked into Columbine High School and massacred his fellow students. Kip Kinkel, who killed his parents, then went to his high school in Oregon, killed two students and wounded 22 others, had eaten FROOT LOOPS. Joseph Wesbecker had eaten Life when he killed seven people with an AK-47 at a printing plant in Kentucky, before taking his own life. It’s Not Guns And It’s Not Movies Atrocities such as these have become disturbingly common over the past few years. We as a society are searching for reasons to explain these grizzly murders, which have torn at the heart and soul of the American culture. In a desperate effort to stave off future catastrophes, we’ve been instituting stringent gun control measures and considering censorship of movies. Folks, guns and movies don’t cause these tragically frequent episodes of inexplicable violence. The real reason is written out on a shopping list by mothers and wives all over the country–these monstrous acts were done not by criminals, but ordinary people high on breakfast cereals. Yet the overuse of CAP’N CRUNCH-LIKE CEREALS is not even a part of the national debate, and those who sound the warning against them are ignored. I can only surmise that the reason the FDA continues to disregard these mounting cereal-related casualties is because of this agency’s close alliance with the multi-billion-dollar grain companies. Just imagine what the FDA would do if there were evidence that these massacres were performed by people eating natural home-made cereals.

Just imagine what John and his idiot pal Whitaker would do if they knew that correlation does not necessarily prove causation. Ever consider that perhaps these murderers were taking the drugs because they were mentally disturbed already, and not the other way around? Of course not, that would be too logical.

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anyone

Dissociative Drug

Question:

hi. this is my first time writing….we are needing to connect with someone other than our therapist or doctor….we don’t know anybody else with d.i.d. i have started e.m.d.r. sessions with our therapist….it is going well,but i am ready to reach out to other peoples who just understand what a wild ride it is to try and get through even a day without a myriad of disasters without even leaving the house….peace and love.

Response:

Shaaron Bradley wrote hi. this is my first time writing….we are needing to connect with someone other than our therapist or doctor….we don’t know anybody else with d.i.d. i have started e.m.d.r. sessions with our therapist….it is going well,but i am ready to reach out to other peoples who just understand what a wild ride it is to try and get through even a day without a myriad of disasters without even leaving the house….peace and love.

welcom to ooour home; you’ll find many people with DID whooo can anwer yur questions. Welcome chameleon

Response:

Hello and welcome to asd. : o) Sierra of TN

Response:

please disregard the possible breach on anonimity-1st time…had no idea we looked that way

Response:

Hi Sharon: I am willing to listen and be supportive. You may contact me at anytime..I will listen and write you back..I am a Zen Priest and do have doctorates in psychology and theology; I am at this time researching DID with the idea that it could be real instead of a supposed dissociative problem: I have run into such a person that leads me to think it may be a real entity and not imagined… Thanks Jordan (Rev. Master Harless) Dr. Jordan Harless Roshi-Shihan (*If you can’t run with the big dogs stay on the porch!) The Difference between religion and spirituality is that religion is for people who are afraid of hell…Spirituality is for people who have been there. http://community.webtv.net/JordyOz/JORDANSPAGE http://community.webtv.net/JordyOz/RONNIEANDJORDAN http://community.webtv.net/JordyOz/BastianWoman

Response:

hihi mi D. mi no lik peechr no no no peechr heer no no

Response:

thanks-peace and love

Response:

I am a priest and counselor…I have a client with possible second personality or entity is there anyone out there that can answer me on this in order I may help my client? Rev. Master Jordan Harless Dr. Jordan Harless Roshi-Shihan (*If you can’t run with the big dogs stay on the porch!) The Difference between religion and spirituality is that religion is for people who are afraid of hell…Spirituality is for people who have been there. http://community.webtv.net/JordyOz/JORDANSPAGE http://community.webtv.net/JordyOz/RONNIEANDJORDAN http://community.webtv.net/JordyOz/BastianWoman

Response:

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you- peace and love

Response:

you are confusing to us….

Response:

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you- peace and love

Response:

Hello Lady Gao, Thank you for making at least this part of your post public, as I was unclear how to respond to the more direct private email you sent to me, so I will respond here. < ** * * * I am Lady Gao the client of R’v M’st’r Harless please do not read this if discussion will trigger anyone or upset anyone..

Nice to meet you. There is a real misunderstanding here among some of the members over my m’str and what she has written and asked on the posts.

I have thoroughly read both your post here and the private email you sent me. I have the sense that, while Mrs. Harless’ *intentions* may have unclear to me, you have tangled what I asked her to do (which was to become more familiar with the FAQ and other information files for the newsgroup) with "attacking" her personally. Others here were, in fact, obviously triggered (and therefore angered and upset) by what Mrs. Harless had to say. For that reason, I recommended getting to know how the newsgroup operates, before posting further. I want to explain if people can be open to hear me speak..which is hard to trust people to speak about me and what I am going through and have gone through…

Understood. I had a T that botched me that wanted to do inner child work that triggered me badly…I am a student of martial arts and knew my instructor was a medical intuitive and is highly respectedi in that area and in the what she calls listening and we call counseling…she doesn’t consider herself a doctor or a T or a counselor she considers herself a listener…which she does well…she doesn’t give medications or doctor anyone if she thinks a problem is medical she will refer a person to a medical doctor or psychiatrist for help or if she cannot handle something send the person to the right licensed person to do so… The idea here is seems that she doesn’t know what she is doing and is using me as an experiment and this is not so.

I, personally, did not know of any clients or anyone else with whom Mrs. Harless might be working. I did not refer to her clients in my post, only to her question regarding the use of Klonopin and her post on sp*r*t**lity. And yes, I questioned her credentials, in light of her self-representation as someone who works in as a health care provider. What you have explained was unclear from her own statements, as well as from the links provided in her posts. You know how hard it is to trust and to build trust with someone a T a C or just anyone.. I trust her explicitly with my life…I know I can trust her and I do…no she did not reveal to my husband anything about my DID or to my friend about DID my own husband told my best friend that I had DID not her…

I am glad there is someone whom you can trust. She keeps all confidentiality…as for being qualified I want to say in a polite way that it is the licensed doctors and T that are asking me for 90-100 an hour to botch me and to trigger me t death and they don’t see everything and they dont know everything..

And I would agree with you about the standard medical/therapeutic systems: the therapist I currently see is not yet licensed in the United States (although she was in another country); I work with her as part of her internship. In her case it was R’v H (I will refer to Jordan as R’v H) that was asked to see a 19 year old that was put on zoloft for depression and was told there was nothing wrong with him…he saw two licensed MD’s one in a big hospital here with tests run and they sent him home with mental problems… His aunt was in her karate class and knew R’v was a medical intuitive and asked if she would see him….and R’v did and saved his life… She knew in the first minute of seeing this boy he had a brain tumor and where it was… and sent him to the right doctor who had a MIR which showed that she was right…and people laughed at her too then….said she was not qualified to do that to say he had a tumor…

Although there is often heated discussion on these topics, this group in general tries to respect any and all forms of healing. I certainly was not mocking Mrs. Harless’ point of view; I simply asked her to put it in a format that would not trigger readers who are sensitive to issues of that nature. the doctors themselves here respect her highly and know if she thinks something is wrong like that it is so; and so they said had the boy waited he would have been dead in a month. So here in this little town we respect her… highly..

If Mrs. Harless is working with medical back-up, there are likely better ways to ask for input on the effects of certain medications than the way she phrased her question here, which was triggering for some. While a person who is dissociative may want to "silence an alter," and receive many supportive responses, seeing that question from someone presenting as a "professional" only can trigger p*nic. There are medical inutiives and we may laugh but people laugh at me too saying there is nothing such as an alt; because I am so badly treated in the past by such people I am open to differing views…

I’m sure there are many in this group who would be eager to hear your views and discuss them with you. For the record I asked about the drug because I did not know it was used for alts; my husband has fms and is on it for that and I was the one who asked R’v H to ask the support group about it…

May I ask why you had Mrs. Harless ask the question for you, rather than approaching the group yourself? This is, after all (as I stated), a place for people with DID and their significant others. Unfortunatly people thought she was trying to shut my alts up and this is not so…she wants to talk to my alt and does and she doesnt mind about it and says if the alt helps then that is all that matters.

I, personally, had no response to that aspect of Mrs. Harless’ post. It is I who went to her to ask for help…after my T was driving me up the wall with inner child work: R’v told me here are my qualifications they are not this and that are you sure you want to come to me and Isaid yes becase of her reputation and her kindess and compassion. She did and is helping me..

Understood. She does work with entity concepts which to us may seem crazy or something out in left field.

There are several people in this group who share similar points of view, and we do not call them "crazy." well so do people think I am too

That’s a familiar feeling, around here. so I myself went to her to ask is this a part of me a fractured me an alt or is it a person a spirit of some kind? It was my question and id did not mean that alts are not real and we did not mean to offend anyone to say they are not real of course they are and who wants to take them away not me not her…

You must take into consideration, of course, that many of us have had very troubling experiences in trying to find support in our diagnoses. Some of us still question daily what is "real"; what is "crazy"; and what "this whole thing" means. It is very difficult for many of us, including me, to extend trust. You seem to know that feeling, too. So mainly I wanted you all to know who reads this that she did not mean to offend you…she did not get the first part I got that showed me what a spoiler is or any of the how to’s she got the actual posting part and so was just happy to find a group she could talk to help me…

That was really my primary concern. I did not ask Mrs. Harless to stop posting here; I asked her to honor the very valuable system in place for making this newsgroup safe for everyone who reads. It is also generally a courtesy to respond to public posts in public, rather than by private email. I do not typically write or respond to private emails emerging from ASD, unless there is a clear understanding between the parties that this will not be considered an invasion of privacy. In this case, I would have preferred to answer the rest of what you mailed privately here, within the confines of the newsgroup, as I do not feel it is an issue between me and you, but rather one about the workings of the group, itself. Then people started to slam her and I think it is unfair to slam someone people do not know…I wanted to write to stop it becauase she is on our side and is trying to help not hurt me and so I wrote not knowing if Itoo would offend someone and they woul all be mad at me..

I wasn’t angry, when I posted. I was making suggestions to *prevent* triggering people into anger and upset. And I recognize that it had already happened here, in response to Mrs. Harless’ approach, so a part of my motivation was being protective of the group members. I dont know how to write now since my R/v H was so attacked that I too would be attaked because I would ask a question wrong or say someting offensive I didnt mean that way.

Many of us here have had very difficult times finding and securing "safe space" in our worlds. We count on ASD to be one of those safe spaces. Many new people read without posting ("lurk") for a long while, to become more familiar with who is here and how this all works. *All* new members are invited to read the FAQ and SYSK. This is not specific to Mrs. Harless, but general to anyone who might come along, out of respect for the group. You have stated that you did, in fact, read at least part of the info files. I appreciate deeply your spoilers and splats here. But this is to clarify that some of y ou are picking on the wrong person here and she is not a bad person o a lousy T and she doesnt even charge a fee and said she would pay for treatment from someone qualified in this field out of her own pocket to help me and yet she takes her time to find the right one..

When people are triggered, there is sometimes an automatic

Response:

welcome and please read below for my opinion…

a whole lot of stuff which I respectfully snipped. If anyone is interested, they can retrieve LadyGao’s post and read it. I just have a few comments: 1. Everyone is welcome here. You are responsible for learning the "culture" of this particular newsgroup before jumping in. Perhaps some time spent just reading would help you and Jordan learn more. 2. Many people, myself included, have been v*ctimized by both r*ligion and sp*rituality. It is rude to disregard other’s feelings. You are doing that by your use of language and apparent disregard for others POV. 3. A support group, by definition, is a group of people who share some commonalities and who also desire to get info and help from others *AND* give help and info to others. You all jumped in, interrupted, disregarded the culture and SYSK, got pissed when called on it and in general, acted like apes. 4. Jordan may very well be a medical intuitive (wow, impressive) but she lacks knowledge of emotional realities and ps*chic energy. You are blindly following and in that behavior lies v*ctimization. 5. I will never again give my sp*rit to someone who sets themselves above me. This is what I see happening to you and I warn you to look at your own strength, not hers. 6. All fan*tics share this in common: arrogance Get a qualified therapist and quit trying to prosyltise here mare

Response:

some feelings…… welcome and please read below for my opinion… a whole lot of stuff which I respectfully snipped. If anyone is interested, they can retrieve LadyGao’s post and read it. I just have a few comments: 1. Everyone is welcome here. You are responsible for learning the "culture" of this particular newsgroup before jumping in. Perhaps some time spent just reading would help you and Jordan learn more.

also we feel that it is rude to keep posting, both of you, without knowing the guidelines and if you are harming people. arrogance running all thru your actions. 2. Many people, myself included, have been v*ctimized by both r*ligion and sp*rituality. It is rude to disregard other’s feelings. You are doing that by your use of language and apparent disregard for others POV.

we were not harmed by r*ligion but find it frightening when we see words like m*ster. no one is our m*ster and we hate the idea of it in any form. if you, jordan, choose to feel like you are someone above and better and in control, and if you, lady gao, choose to be subservient to another in any way that is your business but please keep it beneath a spoiler with an indication BEFOREHAND that you are going to be talking about your choice. we find it repulsive. 3. A support group, by definition, is a group of people who share some commonalities and who also desire to get info and help from others *AND* give help and info to others. You all jumped in, interrupted, disregarded the culture and SYSK, got pissed when called on it and in general, acted like apes.

apes act better. jordan you ask goofy questions that show terrible ignorance, which is scary and angers us that you are trying to help someone who is multiple and are so untaught and unskilled. then, when you sit down in the middle of the table you try to excuse yourself by acting like you are some great h*aler and we are just lost lambs who don’t understand. ugh. then, when that doesn’t work, you send your client to plead your case for you. it is pathetic and ugly and you seem to need lots of growing up and owning your behavior and a lot of other stuff. your degrees don’t mean spit. skools cannot teach people to think and be honest. 4. Jordan may very well be a medical intuitive (wow, impressive) but she lacks knowledge of emotional realities and ps*chic energy. You are blindly following and in that behavior lies v*ctimization.

we went to look at the places she lists as her sites and they all have pictures of a man doing martial arts kicking. not even a graceful and real man, but a dopey drawing that is like what a teenager would put on the wall when he is thinking he is bruce le* or something. we say to lady gao, get outta there while the getting is good and find a grownup to help you. 5. I will never again give my sp*rit to someone who sets themselves above me. This is what I see happening to you and I warn you to look at your own strength, not hers. 6. All fan*tics share this in common: arrogance Get a qualified therapist and quit trying to prosyltise here mare

sorry mare, to get into your post like this, only you just made us want to speak and so we did. no one should blame you for us being mad, ok. some of cs — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:

Response:

< ** * * * I am Lady Gao the client of R’v M’st’r Harless please do not read this if discussion will trigger anyone or upset anyone.. There is a real misunderstanding here among some of the members over my m’str and what she has written and asked on the posts. I want to explain if people can be open to hear me speak..which is hard to trust people to speak about me and what I am going through and have gone through… I had a T that botched me that wanted to do inner child work that triggered me badly…I am a student of martial arts and knew my instructor was a medical intuitive and is highly respectedi in that area and in the what she calls listening and we call counseling…she doesn’t consider herself a doctor or a T or a counselor she considers herself a listener…which she does well…she doesn’t give medications or doctor anyone if she thinks a problem is medical she will refer a person to a medical doctor or psychiatrist for help or if she cannot handle something send the person to the right licensed person to do so… The idea here is seems that she doesn’t know what she is doing and is using me as an experiment and this is not so. You know how hard it is to trust and to build trust with someone a T a C or just anyone.. I trust her explicitly with my life…I know I can trust her and I do…no she did not reveal to my husband anything about my DID or to my friend about DID my own husband told my best friend that I had DID not her… She keeps all confidentiality…as for being qualified I want to say in a polite way that it is the licensed doctors and T that are asking me for 90-100 an hour to botch me and to trigger me t death and they don’t see everything and they dont know everything.. In her case it was R’v H (I will refer to Jordan as R’v H) that was asked to see a 19 year old that was put on zoloft for depression and was told there was nothing wrong with him…he saw two licensed MD’s one in a big hospital here with tests run and they sent him home with mental problems… His aunt was in her karate class and knew R’v was a medical intuitive and asked if she would see him….and R’v did and saved his life… She knew in the first minute of seeing this boy he had a brain tumor and where it was… and sent him to the right doctor who had a MIR which showed that she was right…and people laughed at her too then….said she was not qualified to do that to say he had a tumor… the doctors themselves here respect her highly and know if she thinks something is wrong like that it is so; and so they said had the boy waited he would have been dead in a month. So here in this little town we respect her… highly.. There are medical inutiives and we may laugh but people laugh at me too saying there is nothing such as an alt; because I am so badly treated in the past by such people I am open to differing views… For the record I asked about the drug because I did not know it was used for alts; my husband has fms and is on it for that and I was the one who asked R’v H to ask the support group about it… Unfortunatly people thought she was trying to shut my alts up and this is not so…she wants to talk to my alt and does and she doesnt mind about it and says if the alt helps then that is all that matters. It is I who went to her to ask for help…after my T was driving me up the wall with inner child work: R’v told me here are my qualifications they are not this and that are you sure you want to come to me and Isaid yes becase of her reputation and her kindess and compassion. She did and is helping me.. She does work with entity concepts which to us may seem crazy or something out in left field. well so do people think I am too so I myself went to her to ask is this a part of me a fractured me an alt or is it a person a spirit of some kind? It was my question and id did not mean that alts are not real and we did not mean to offend anyone to say they are not real of course they are and who wants to take them away not me not her… So mainly I wanted you all to know who reads this that she did not mean to offend you…she did not get the first part I got that showed me what a spoiler is or any of the how to’s she got the actual posting part and so was just happy to find a group she could talk to help me… Then people started to slam her and I think it is unfair to slam someone people do not know…I wanted to write to stop it becauase she is on our side and is trying to help not hurt me and so I wrote not knowing if Itoo would offend someone and they woul all be mad at me.. I dont know how to write now since my R/v H was so attacked that I too would be attaked because I would ask a question wrong or say someting offensive I didnt mean that way. But this is to clarify that some of y ou are picking on the wrong person here and she is not a bad person o a lousy T and she doesnt even charge a fee and said she would pay for treatment from someone qualified in this field out of her own pocket to help me and yet she takes her time to find the right one.. I live in the B’bl belt and so I would be seen as someone possessed or with the Freudian shrinks someone narcisitic and crazy…I do not know which is worse a nut house or a church but her way of dealing is universal and does not try to convert anyone to anything… like I said she listens and guides…I talk and learn…and without her I would not be here on this line she found it not I. SO please help me and teach me how to write to you properly to avoid this kind of attack and to try to make you understand she is OK she is on our side… Lady Gao (one of you needing you)

Response:

Jordan and the Lady are welcome here in my opinion and i would like to publicly apologize to both of them for the harshness with wich their mistakes were met here in our group. we should strive to be a place of healing, not of tearing down. we should also try to understand the place of someone new who can’t possibly know certain things until they are told. on finding this site the second time i totally was just thrown into someones thread. the search engine guided past all other information. i was pleasantly suprised to have been thrown into a place that i was already familiar with, from the past, but i can see how easy it is to just get in on the discussion and not realize that their might be rules if you haven’t been here before. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – some feelings…… welcome and please read below for my opinion… a whole lot of stuff which I respectfully snipped. If anyone is interested, they can retrieve LadyGao’s post and read it. I just have a few comments: 1. Everyone is welcome here. You are responsible for learning the "culture" of this particular newsgroup before jumping in. Perhaps some time spent just reading would help you and Jordan learn more. also we feel that it is rude to keep posting, both of you, without knowing the guidelines and if you are harming people. arrogance running all thru your actions. 2. Many people, myself included, have been v*ctimized by both r*ligion and sp*rituality. It is rude to disregard other’s feelings. You are doing that by your use of language and apparent disregard for others POV. we were not harmed by r*ligion but find it frightening when we see words like m*ster. no one is our m*ster and we hate the idea of it in any form. if you, jordan, choose to feel like you are someone above and better and in control, and if you, lady gao, choose to be subservient to another in any way that is your business but please keep it beneath a spoiler with an indication BEFOREHAND that you are going to be talking about your choice. we find it repulsive. 3. A support group, by definition, is a group of people who share some commonalities and who also desire to get info and help from others *AND* give help and info to others. You all jumped in, interrupted, disregarded the culture and SYSK, got pissed when called on it and in general, acted like apes. apes act better. jordan you ask goofy questions that show terrible ignorance, which is scary and angers us that you are trying to help someone who is multiple and are so untaught and unskilled. then, when you sit down in the middle of the table you try to excuse yourself by acting like you are some great h*aler and we are just lost lambs who don’t understand. ugh. then, when that doesn’t work, you send your client to plead your case for you. it is pathetic and ugly and you seem to need lots of growing up and owning your behavior and a lot of other stuff. your degrees don’t mean spit. skools cannot teach people to think and be honest. 4. Jordan may very well be a medical intuitive (wow, impressive) but she lacks knowledge of emotional realities and ps*chic energy. You are blindly following and in that behavior lies v*ctimization. we went to look at the places she lists as her sites and they all have pictures of a man doing martial arts kicking. not even a graceful and real man, but a dopey drawing that is like what a teenager would put on the wall when he is thinking he is bruce le* or something. we say to lady gao, get outta there while the getting is good and find a grownup to help you. 5. I will never again give my sp*rit to someone who sets themselves above me. This is what I see happening to you and I warn you to look at your own strength, not hers. 6. All fan*tics share this in common: arrogance Get a qualified therapist and quit trying to prosyltise here mare sorry mare, to get into your post like this, only you just made us want to speak and so we did. no one should blame you for us being mad, ok. some of cs — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:

Response:

I’m going to put my response here above, but leave the post below. I agree that Jordan and Lady G recieved some unpleasant treatment when they got here. they obviously didn’t know the rules or even understand the need for they and instead of getting gentle advice on how to comply in a safe manner, I felt they were attacked. I understand people were triggered, but the responses from many people were cruel. They came here in the same kind of desperation that made all of us search for this place and found, that for them, there wasn’t even a place here among their own kind. The really sad part is that I didn’t stand up for them, and had to wait until Elizabeth said anything to realize that I should have. Eve & RoseTower – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snipping some – i’m really ambivalent about this and don’t especially want to get in the middle of all the anger, but i share some of it, so . . . 1. Everyone is welcome here. You are responsible for learning the "culture" of this particular newsgroup before jumping in. Perhaps some time spent just reading would help you and Jordan learn more. i thought i had come to find that everyone -was- welcome here, as long as the rules were followed. it is absolutely essential to read before you post, to learn when and how to spoil and splat, etc. but even following the strictest of guidelines (which i uphold 110%), it would seem that -not- everyone is truly welcome. we were not harmed by r*ligion but find it frightening when we see words like m*ster. no one is our m*ster and we hate the idea of it in any form. agree here. to us, it indicates subservience and obedience at all cost, something we have been trying to escape for a very long time. if you, jordan, choose to feel like you are someone above and better and in control, and if you, lady gao, choose to be subservient to another in any way that is your business but please keep it beneath a spoiler with an indication BEFOREHAND that you are going to be talking about your choice. we find it repulsive. her post should have been spoilered. yes. and splatted. that was her and Jordy’s mistake and it upset a lot of people (understandably and rightfully). she should have read the SYSK and learned about posting before she did. i agree. apes act better i think this is extremely rude. jordan you ask goofy questions that show terrible ignorance, which is scary and angers us that you are trying to help someone who is multiple and are so untaught and unskilled. it scares me, too, that someone who is not trained in conventional med*c*ne and ps*ch*oth*rapy is trying to treat a multiple. i question even the competency of those with degrees and specialist training. as i understand this situation, though, we have, first of all, a cultural difference. eastern culture looks at things much differently than western culture does. the philosophies are different, h*aling is viewed differently. i suspect that, even had Jordan and Lady Gao spoilered and spatted all of the place, they would not have found a welcome here. your degrees don’t mean spit. well, there’s that rudeness again. skools cannot teach people to think and be honest. you’re right. are you making a judgement here? saying she’s not? You are blindly following and in that behavior lies v*ctimization. you could be right. this is also a cultural thing. seen very differently, depending on what side of the fence you’re on. we went to look at the places she lists as her sites and they all have pictures of a man doing martial arts kicking. not even a graceful and real man, 5. I will never again give my sp*rit to someone who sets themselves above me. This is what I see happening to you and I warn you to look at your own strength, not hers. 6. All fan*tics share this in common: arrogance Get a qualified therapist and quit trying to prosyltise here she came here to get some insight and help. she wasn’t proselytizing – she was trying to explain how her b*liefs differed from ours. she’s tried therapy and, for whatever reason, it didn’t work out. she’s on the same journey that we’ve all been on – with ups and downs and she was only trying to reach out for some answers. i understand she’s not coming back. that should please everyone. i understand how angry and upsetting this was to people. there have been posts here that i found as disturbing, if not more so. but i think that some of the responses have been ab*sive and that the poster could have said the same thing and relayed the same emotions using kinder words. if people need to be talk like that here to others, then those posts, too, need to be spoilered. Elisabeth

Response:

snipping some – i’m really ambivalent about this and don’t especially want to get in the middle of all the anger, but i share some of it, so . . . 1. Everyone is welcome here. You are responsible for learning the "culture" of this particular newsgroup before jumping in. Perhaps some time spent just reading would help you and Jordan learn more.

i thought i had come to find that everyone -was- welcome here, as long as the rules were followed. it is absolutely essential to read before you post, to learn when and how to spoil and splat, etc. but even following the strictest of guidelines (which i uphold 110%), it would seem that -not- everyone is truly welcome. we were not harmed by r*ligion but find it frightening when we see words like m*ster. no one is our m*ster and we hate the idea of it in any form.

agree here. to us, it indicates subservience and obedience at all cost, something we have been trying to escape for a very long time. if you, jordan, choose to feel like you are someone above and better and in control, and if you, lady gao, choose to be subservient to another in any way that is your business but please keep it beneath a spoiler with an indication BEFOREHAND that you are going to be talking about your choice. we find it repulsive.

her post should have been spoilered. yes. and splatted. that was her and Jordy’s mistake and it upset a lot of people (understandably and rightfully). she should have read the SYSK and learned about posting before she did. i agree. apes act better

i think this is extremely rude. jordan you ask goofy questions that show terrible ignorance, which is scary and angers us that you are trying to help someone who is multiple and are so untaught and unskilled.

it scares me, too, that someone who is not trained in conventional med*c*ne and ps*ch*oth*rapy is trying to treat a multiple. i question even the competency of those with degrees and specialist training. as i understand this situation, though, we have, first of all, a cultural difference. eastern culture looks at things much differently than western culture does. the philosophies are different, h*aling is viewed differently. i suspect that, even had Jordan and Lady Gao spoilered and spatted all of the place, they would not have found a welcome here. your degrees don’t mean spit.

well, there’s that rudeness again. skools cannot teach people to think and be honest. you’re right. are you making a judgement here? saying she’s not? You are blindly following and in that behavior lies v*ctimization.

you could be right. this is also a cultural thing. seen very differently, depending on what side of the fence you’re on. we went to look at the places she lists as her sites and they all have pictures of a man doing martial arts kicking. not even a graceful and real man,

5. I will never again give my sp*rit to someone who sets themselves above me. This is what I see happening to you and I warn you to look at your own strength, not hers. 6. All fan*tics share this in common: arrogance Get a qualified therapist and quit trying to prosyltise here

she came here to get some insight and help. she wasn’t proselytizing – she was trying to explain how her b*liefs differed from ours. she’s tried therapy and, for whatever reason, it didn’t work out. she’s on the same journey that we’ve all been on – with ups and downs and she was only trying to reach out for some answers. i understand she’s not coming back. that should please everyone. i understand how angry and upsetting this was to people. there have been posts here that i found as disturbing, if not more so. but i think that some of the responses have been ab*sive and that the poster could have said the same thing and relayed the same emotions using kinder words. if people need to be talk like that here to others, then those posts, too, need to be spoilered. Elisabeth

Response:

hi LadyGao, this is mare you have a right to your opinion… I disagree with you. but that is ok to be different in view.

oh yes, that is true. But, I celebrate my ability to gather data, make informed decisions and act on such… you are making a decision on a person you do not know and have never met and have never sat down and talked to;

I am making a decision based upon her posts…as we all do on Usenet. That is the nature of this medium. Also, the old saying comes to mind "You don’t get a second chance to make a good first impression" so I disagree with you she is never above me and I do not see her as a therapist but as someone listening to me i am not misled I have intelligence I am not ignorant

This makes me breathe easier. I feel less trepidation for you now. Listen to your heart. When in doubt, don’t. I had a bad T that is why I left her I know the difference between a bad T and a good T I know the difference between being misled and not

okay, your life is your own. You make your own decisions. No one else pressures you to think, feel, talk, act, believe a certain way. If you act in ways that go against the grain, no one berates you. You are in charge. Yes? to assume I do not is to assume I am stupid…

oh no, I do not think this about you. I gave my spir*t to a group long ago…not because I was stupid, but beca8use I was afraid. so I am not happy with that assumption..

sorry…don’t mean to offend qualified ??? I had a qualified T with degree from fancy institution and license to boot she didnt know her butt from a hole in the ground I knew more than she did

There are lots of T’s out there who know their a*s (how might we splat this word??) from a hole in the ground. They are NOT m*sters; they are people like us. Some are wounded healers, some are way past where we are. They provide nonjudgemental, active listening. They provide reason when reson fails. They provide safety when littles are out. They do not put us in a box and say "You must change" she was trying to integrate me and with all that inner child BS

sorry for this. I**** is an option; not a necessity. SO dont take this the wrong way but I am not sure there is such a real thing as qualified except to say I make the decision who is qualified to help me

again, welcome to asd. and I hope you will continue on your journey of healing. peace, mare

Response:

Next subject please? Can we talk about something else? Lady Gao

Response:

Dear cs and others, thanks so much for responding. It is good to read another person’s opinion. Sharing our thoughts and feelings on this newsgroup is very healing. I opened the group today and saw responses from both you and Lady Gao. It was good *for me* to read pro and con and still know that what I expressed in my post was the truth *as I see it* Isn’t that the essence of what has happened to those of us who have been ab*sed? We were taught to mistrust our perceptions, our feelings, our thoughts…this is an opportunity to move beyond that defensive stance. Thank you for the chance to stand up for what I believe. in healing, mare

Response:

you have a right to your opinion… I disagree with you. but that is ok to be different in view. you are making a decision on a person you do not know and have never met and have never sat down and talked to; so I disagree with you she is never above me and I do not see her as a therapist but as someone listening to me i am not misled I have intelligence I am not ignorant I had a bad T that is why I left her I know the difference between a bad T and a good T I know the difference between being misled and not to assume I do not is to assume I am stupid… so I am not happy with that assumption.. qualified ??? I had a qualified T with degree from fancy institution and license to boot she didnt know her butt from a hole in the ground I knew more than she did she was trying to integrate me and with all that inner child BS SO dont take this the wrong way but I am not sure there is such a real thing as qualified except to say I make the decision who is qualified to help me because it is me and my protector I am concerned about and I am able to decide for me who I want to talk to do not take offense at this answer I just want you to know in a nice way because it is not nice to attack someone I love so deeply who is helping me more than any T who is qualified and if it were not for Jordan I wouldnot have found you to talk to you in the first place… so…please chill on the Jordan issue I want people to drop it I want to talk to people about me about my other and to listen to me about my needs here to give lend support I need right now and to be honest attacking and putting down my teacher is not what I need if that is what it is going to be then I will just not read the posts or respond because I want support and helpl someone to understand me my teacher is out of this now it is me and you and the rest of you who want to hear me it is not about her itis about me I am not wanting a new T right now so understand this is my vacation from qualified T’s…. Lady Gao Said all this with good intention and heart

Response:

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mass confusion

Dissociative Drug

Question:

Greetings I am finally, really beginning to accept what goes on inside of me. I am frustrated and confused, and I had a hard day. After lurking for so long, and briefly sharing a few times, it feels good to finally be in a place to share. Because of my newness I am going to spoiler for good measure. okay, my spoilering needs work:)

I just went through one of those situations in life where one does not think one is going to survive, this was probably the worst situation I’ve ever been in for at least 7 years. I do not want to bore you with all the creepy details so I will make this as brief as possible. I have been sober 13 yrs, I have Bipolar I (dx’ed 4 years) and on a DID "scale from 1(normal) to 10 (complete loss of time sw*tching) I am pushing a 9. So I go on this date with someone I’ve known about two months, and to make it short, he drugged me, I knew something was up but thought A) I am having a manic breakthrough..B) I am spl*tt*ng so badly I am loosing time C) I just couldn’t figure it out. So a one evening date turned into a 10 evening date, with us planning a wedding.(:O don’t ask). Day 10 I catch him dropping the drug into my drink and kabam, everything makes sense. Needless to say I got out of there quick, called my pdoc, hung with sober friends while I was weaned off the drug Mr." Oh my g*d what was I thinking, my how drugs affect my judgement man" gave me. I am sorry this is getting long. But after today, I just need to sit here and write it out and cry. So, I had a pdoc appointment today. He has been my doc for four yrs and he is the greatest. After not being able to sleep all night, I fell asleep for two hours, from 730am-930am, and get up and get ready and go to my 11 am appointment. I get there and Becky, the receptionist, said my appointment was for 930am. Okay ya’ll, right here my mental and emotional state just collapsed. Everything just hit me in the face. I thought and wrote down 11am, because it was the 11th of May….and I have been so confused like this since this whole episode. I walked out of that office wanting to frag me face down the side of his brick building, truly wanting to have a complete nervous brkdwn right there. It has been almost three weeks that I have been off the drug that was slipped to me. (by the way the drug was loranzepan or something like that , it sent me straight to a black out, I have very little recall of those ten days with him or the following week) Here is my whole confused point and I think it might be full of triggers so please be careful. I am so confused. I am having such a hard time deciphering real from unreal. Am I still missing time because a strong drug like that can have an effect that lasts a while, or have I crossed over and become a 10 on the DID scale *or* am I in a manic state. Somebody please tell me they understand this. The mania tells me everything is great when *it is NOT*, and even though I never thought I went all the way away when someone else came in…..now I am doubting that…….maybe I do, maybe I am sicker than I think, You know how these illnesses can lie to us. I am so confused about what is real,where I went, And why I can’t keep up with my actions unless I look at a calendar. Truly it is like the month of April just didn’t happen in my life. I haven’t been in T*rpy in about a year….okay maybe it’s more like two years. I have been cruising along doing what I thought was says..you really need to be in th*r*py. I really should stop now, I’ve gone on long enough. But I know somewhere out there in cyber land, someone knows how this confusion and this lost lost lost feeling feels. I’m calling the T*st tomorrow. Starting with a new T*st, So many of us hate that. I was thinking about this driving home from the pdoc. Do any of you have a person, that is almost like a steel wall of denial, that just pushes her way out there and keeps you blind to your actions, trapped in that floaty in between trance like space so you do not have to deal with all this. It seems that besides putting me in the auto pilot coma like state, she also stands by my ear and whisper destructing and on the verge of loosing absolutely everything including my child, my job, my mind, and even my life……she just powerful, and I think I just met her today. Thank you for reading this if you made it this far. This is really overwhelming for me right now and spitting it out helped. I have been through enough to know, somewhere, that this will pass and I will be strong again and heal and focus and know what friggin day of the week it is, but right now it just all looks uphill from here. I am so grateful you people are here, who else gets this? ~take all you need to live in the sun~

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings I am finally, really beginning to accept what goes on inside of me. I am frustrated and confused, and I had a hard day. After lurking for so long, and briefly sharing a few times, it feels good to finally be in a place to share. Because of my newness I am going to spoiler for good measure. okay, my spoilering needs work:) I just went through one of those situations in life where one does not think one is going to survive, this was probably the worst situation I’ve ever been in for at least 7 years. I do not want to bore you with all the creepy details so I will make this as brief as possible. I have been sober 13 yrs, I have Bipolar I (dx’ed 4 years) and on a DID "scale from 1(normal) to 10 (complete loss of time sw*tching) I am pushing a 9. So I go on this date with someone I’ve known about two months, and to make it short, he drugged me, I knew something was up but thought A) I am having a manic breakthrough..B) I am spl*tt*ng so badly I am loosing time C) I just couldn’t figure it out. So a one evening date turned into a 10 evening date, with us planning a wedding.(:O don’t ask). Day 10 I catch him dropping the drug into my drink and kabam, everything makes sense. Needless to say I got out of there quick, called my pdoc, hung with sober friends while I was weaned off the drug Mr." Oh my g*d what was I thinking, my how drugs affect my judgement man" gave me. I am sorry this is getting long. But after today, I just need to sit here and write it out and cry. So, I had a pdoc appointment today. He has been my doc for four yrs and he is the greatest. After not being able to sleep all night, I fell asleep for two hours, from 730am-930am, and get up and get ready and go to my 11 am appointment. I get there and Becky, the receptionist, said my appointment was for 930am. Okay ya’ll, right here my mental and emotional state just collapsed. Everything just hit me in the face. I thought and wrote down 11am, because it was the 11th of May….and I have been so confused like this since this whole episode. I walked out of that office wanting to frag me face down the side of his brick building, truly wanting to have a complete nervous brkdwn right there. It has been almost three weeks that I have been off the drug that was slipped to me. (by the way the drug was loranzepan or something like that , it sent me straight to a black out, I have very little recall of those ten days with him or the following week) Here is my whole confused point and I think it might be full of triggers so please be careful. I am so confused. I am having such a hard time deciphering real from unreal. Am I still missing time because a strong drug like that can have an effect that lasts a while, or have I crossed over and become a 10 on the DID scale *or* am I in a manic state. Somebody please tell me they understand this. The mania tells me everything is great when *it is NOT*, and even though I never thought I went all the way away when someone else came in…..now I am doubting that…….maybe I do, maybe I am sicker than I think, You know how these illnesses can lie to us. I am so confused about what is real,where I went, And why I can’t keep up with my actions unless I look at a calendar. Truly it is like the month of April just didn’t happen in my life. I haven’t been in T*rpy in about a year….okay maybe it’s more like two years. I have been cruising along doing what I thought was says..you really need to be in th*r*py. I really should stop now, I’ve gone on long enough. But I know somewhere out there in cyber land, someone knows how this confusion and this lost lost lost feeling feels. I’m calling the T*st tomorrow. Starting with a new T*st, So many of us hate that. I was thinking about this driving home from the pdoc. Do any of you have a person, that is almost like a steel wall of denial, that just pushes her way out there and keeps you blind to your actions, trapped in that floaty in between trance like space so you do not have to deal with all this. It seems that besides putting me in the auto pilot coma like state, she also stands by my ear and whisper destructing and on the verge of loosing absolutely everything including my child, my job, my mind, and even my life……she just powerful, and I think I just met her today. Thank you for reading this if you made it this far. This is really overwhelming for me right now and spitting it out helped. I have been through enough to know, somewhere, that this will pass and I will be strong again and heal and focus and know what friggin day of the week it is, but right now it just all looks uphill from here. I am so grateful you people are here, who else gets this? ~take all you need to live in the sun~

I’m so sorry that this happened to you. Please hang in there and take as good of care of yourself as you can. I feel for you and identify with a lot of what you said about your confusion. I agree with Melissa’s post but I can’t explain right now because my head is fuzzy. I read your whole post…and am glad that you got some things out here. Sincerely, Siram

Response:

I just hate when this sort of thing happens!!! Happens to me when there is lots of stress or anxiety in my life. Sounds like you have both at the moment office wanting to frag me face down the side of his brick building, truly wanting to have a complete nervous brkdwn right there. It has been almost three weeks that I have been off the drug that was slipped to me. (by the way the drug was loranzepan or something like that , it sent me straight to a black out, I have very little recall of those ten days with him or the following week) Here is my whole confused point and I think it might be full of triggers so please be careful. I am so confused. I am having such a hard time deciphering real from unreal. Am I still missing time because a strong drug like that can have an effect that lasts a while, or have I crossed over and become a 10 on the DID scale *or* am I in a manic state. Somebody please tell me they understand this. The mania

Hmm, could be a bit of all three. The drug could still be messing with your head (especially given that you have no idea how much he gave you and chances are good he has no idea what is a safe amount in the first place, you could have been od’ed on it and your body has to get rid of it now). Anxiety and stress can cause people to temporarily become more dissociative (and if you are normally so ‘good’ at being dissoid in the first place it just seems natural that you would go to this defense at a time of high anxiety/stress) so it is possible that you are temporarily more like a 10. And of course mania is very closely related to anxiety in many ways (for example, many many people report manic symptoms during times of extreme stress and they are definitely _not_ bipolar in the first place) so that someone who is already pre-disposed to manic episodes in the first place (your body is chemically pre-disposed that is) might easily end up more manic at a time of high stress. tells me everything is great when *it is NOT*, and even though I never thought I went all the way away when someone else came in…..now I am doubting that…….maybe I do, maybe I am sicker than I think, You know how these illnesses can lie to us. I am so confused about what is real,where I went, And why I can’t keep up with my actions unless I look at a calendar. Truly it is like the month of April just didn’t happen in my life.

Sounds like what happened to me several years ago when my life basically fell apart for a bit. I was manic, dissociating all over the place, and freaking out for close to a month at least! As I got a better handle on the anxiety the symptoms calmed back down. I haven’t been in T*rpy in about a year….okay maybe it’s more like two years. I have been cruising along doing what I thought was says..you really need to be in th*r*py. I really should stop now, I’ve gone on long enough. But I know somewhere out there in cyber land, someone knows how this confusion and this lost lost lost feeling feels. I’m calling the T*st tomorrow. Starting with a new T*st, So many of us hate that.

I agree with your dr on this one. Sure you could probably handle this alone but why do it? Once you get your neurotransmitters out of whack it takes some skill and patience to get them re-whacked *grin* and it would just be easier on you if you had a steadying influence on you while this is happening. Chances are good you _were_ fine until this happened. What happened was a new trauma and it re-injured you. Now you have to take care of yourself to heal from it. I was thinking about this driving home from the pdoc. Do any of you have a person, that is almost like a steel wall of denial, that just pushes her way out there and keeps you blind to your actions,

Her name was Sara *grin* She and my t’pist used to have some totally awsome fights trapped in that floaty in between trance like space so you do not have to deal with all this. It seems that besides putting me in the auto pilot coma like state, she also stands by my ear and whisper destructing and on the verge of loosing absolutely everything including my child, my job, my mind, and even my life……she just powerful, and I think I just met her today.

Cool, tell her hi and to relax a bit Thank you for reading this if you made it this far. This is really overwhelming for me right now and spitting it out helped. I have been through enough to know, somewhere, that this will pass and I will be strong again and heal and focus and know what friggin day of the week it is, but right now it just all looks uphill from here.

Umm, it was Wednesday when I typed my reply (not that this will help you in any way cause by the time you read this is will most likely be another day I am so grateful you people are here, who else gets this?

Exactly, ‘been there, done that’ can be so comforting! Rainbow Colors (Jill) — The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing we are becoming white light.

Response:

What a terrible experience you have had. It sounded to me like you’re more together than you realize and that being able to write out the experience, the emotional aftermath and all the confusion and the mania you are experiencing was helpful. Good that you decided to post. Deborah

Response:

Greetings, I want to thank you all for responding to my post in such a supportive way. I had a much better day today. I dealt with the alc*h*lism years ago and pretty much stabilized the BP. What I have skimmed treating is the DID. Even though this was one of the worst things in my recent history, it shook me up enough to really get me out of denial and send me straight to the T*s office. Not that I would ever wish this to happen for that reason, I just want to try to comfort myself by looking for something positive out of the whole deal. Thank you Melissa for your very sympathetic response. I actually read it last night, and the comfort in your message helped me….I even slept well. And Net Cal, debphae, < and jill, I want to thank you guys for validating the horrificness of my experience. The people in my life, family and few friends, just aren’t getting how tra*m*tic this was for me, how it kicked in my illnesses. I felt like you all knew my confusion, and you reminded me it will pass and I will feel better. I am amazed and inspired by your support. thank you true fullmoon ~What really interest me is whether God had any choice in the creation of the world~ *Einstein*

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Possible dissociative niece? (LONG)

Dissociative Drug

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Sarah Thanks for the encouraging words-it’s the 9 yr. old, not the 12 yr. old that is the source of worry. I did see a lawyer, and was contemplating fighting. The problem is that my mother is the one w/ "standing", a legal interest in the kids b/c they lived with her so long. I don’t have enough standing-they’ve only stayed w/ me 2 summers and frequent visits, and both my mother and my brother would oppose me. I have to learn more about the behavior. If there is sexual abuse, it ’s possible a neighborhood child is responsible (older brother of a playmate, niece visits there, no adult supervision). I’ll keep you posted. Thanks again. Lisa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -wonder grrrl wrote in message <6tq004$f7…@supernews.com>… >If you believe they are in danger — FIGHT FOR THEM!!!! >There is a problem when the one girl is cutting up stuff and acting "weird". >She’s only twelve. >I don’t think it is appropriate for her to be sleeping in any adults bed. >If I was her and I knew you cared, I would hope that you could help me. >If you’re pritty sure your brother KILLED his wife, i think you should go >with your gut instinct. >Best of success to you and the girls, >May GOD be with you. >– >sarah >wonder_gr…@hotmail.com >http://members.theglobe.com/wonder_grrrl/

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If you believe they are in danger — FIGHT FOR THEM!!!! There is a problem when the one girl is cutting up stuff and acting "weird". She’s only twelve. I don’t think it is appropriate for her to be sleeping in any adults bed. If I was her and I knew you cared, I would hope that you could help me. If you’re pritty sure your brother KILLED his wife, i think you should go with your gut instinct. Best of success to you and the girls, May GOD be with you. — sarah wonder_gr…@hotmail.com http://members.theglobe.com/wonder_grrrl/

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I’m posting here because I don’t know what else to do. I’m 44 woman, happily married 14 yrs, no kids (IUD infertility). I’m enmeshed in an incredibly dysfunctional family, consisting of a 70 yr. old alcoholic father, a manipulative, enabling mother (68), and 3 brothers (a 4th committed suicide 29 yrs ago). I’m mostly concerned with +ACI-Tom+ACI- my possibly borderline personality older brother, and the fate of his 2 kids, +ACI-Sally +ACI-12 and +ACI-Arial+ACI-, 9. I live an hr away, and am a part-time college professor (soon to be HS teacher). Tom is 47, has never been self-supporting, even though he’s intelligent, charming and inconsistently talented (home contractor). Somehow all family crises have revolved around him-e.g. suicide attempts, arrests, fights with siblings, problems of his kids, etc. Nine yrs ago Tom was acquitted of 1st degree murder of the girls’ mother (it was probably manslaughter, and my mother paid a lot for a fancy lawyer) Since then, he has lived w/ my mother and father, selling bootleg T-shirts and occasional contracting. The tension/yelling/chaos/ triangulation in my parents’ house was unbelievable. For a while Tom was getting better (in therapy, on medication). Then Tom +ACI-fell in love+ACI- with a drug addicted prostitute and his behavior became increasingly erratic . We’d always thought his behavior was sometimes weird, but I didn’t know there might be a name for his behavior – BPD. Then +ACI-Tom+ACI- ran over the Grace’s pimp and was convicted of aggravated assault. Despite all this Tom still doesn’t recognize he has a problem and insists on his innocence (My mother keeps forking out money for lawyers). We all wrote letters asking the court to give him work release and therapy (probably a mistake). Tom began work release (2-4 yr.) working for +ACI-Harry+ACI- the youngest brother, a real estate broker. Things got bad because my mother kept interfering whenever Harry tried to set boundaries for Tom. Are you still with me? The girls became very difficult for my mother to handle, poor glasswork, cursing, fighting, lying etc. A child therapist +ACI-Lucia+ACI-, helped them some in their grieving for their dead mother. But Tom pulled them out because the therapist wouldn’t tell the court the girls missed him. Neither Harry, who’s divorcing, or Dick, who has 4 kids, can care for the girls, and I stupidly pushed too hard for partial custody of Tom’s 2 daughters,. Though he’d earlier encouraged me to get close to his kids, now I’m definitely +ACI-bad +ACI- +ACI-stealing+ACI- his kids when he’s down, even though he made no provisions for their care.. And though my mother, their real caretaker, once favored me taking them, she has now turned in favor of Tom, who has come up with several impractical schemes for their care (boarding school, a governess, (+ACE-), placing them with friends, , etc. . SO here’s why I’m posting. I recently found out that Arial (who in the past 2 yrs has been scolded several times for cutting her hair and/or clothes,) is now hacking at furniture with a knife, and scratching epithets into cars, then denying she’s done it, even when there are witnesses. In one incident, she apparently responded in a high-pitched rapid voice, +ACI-Be quiet, they’ll hear you, don’t let them hear you+ACI- When I later said it might be a dissociative episode and should be mentioned to the new shrink, my mother had a fit. BTW, +ACI-Arial+ACI- still occasionally sleeps in my mother and father’s bed (Of course I’ve said it’s a bad idea). I don’t -think- there is sexual abuse, maybe because my father never touched me, and I have explained about +ACI-bad touching+ACI- several times to both girls. But I don’t know what to do. Am I wrong to worried about this behavior? I can’t get custody without an ugly legal battle, my mother is blind in her enabling of Tom, and I think both kids are in a downward spiral. I will keep reassuring them I’m there for them, inviting them for visits, sending them cards, email etc, but I honestly don’t think I can do much else, given the constraints my mother and brother have put on me. Any advice?

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